Position Group Strength Rankings

[Agent Blue]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

A lot of you want to bargin bin hunt on wrs which i get, but I dont want to pass on a hof caliber talent like Chase for a maybe good LT like Slater... He played well vs Chase young is all i hear but what else...Give me the more talent players and i will bargin on the position with a deeper base pool after that.

massive difference in position value. 

a good LT is just better than a great WR. 

[shaqattaq]

22 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Remember that Fitterer was determined to keep the first 3 picks of the draft when he dealt with the Jets to get Darnold.  That trade was not about what we gave up, it was about what we did NOT give up. 

This was apparent to me as well. We're all hoping it's a loooong time before we pick top 10 again, and they wanted to take advantage. Plus Fitterer wants to hit big on his first draft. he's looking to come out of day 2 with 3 instant starters, and there's a good chance to pull it off. I think LT and CB are no brainers, but we could also get a starter at TE, WR, or DL on day 2. I left IOL off the list (even though it's very possible to get a really good G, or even a C here) because of all the offseason moves here. First we re-signed Miller, who was pretty good last year. We also immediately grabbed Elfin and Erving in FA. Both can play across the line. We also picked up Ivey, who will likely play G, if he makes the team. I also noticed that Daley is officially on the roster as a G, IIRC, he was listed as T last season. While most of us are hoping that we absolutely draft a young stud IOL, we really don't have to at this point. As you pointed out, with the depth of this draft, a good G can be found in 4th, 5th, even 6th round. Our best in recent history was undrafted!

[Khyber53]

7 hours ago, Agent Blue said:

massive difference in position value. 

a good LT is just better than a great WR. 

This without a doubt. LT is involved as an active participant in every snap of the game. There are a lot of plays that a WR is just on the field to move the other team's chess pieces around. Even the greats weren't called on every down.

But that LT, he is there battling it out every down whether it's run or pass, headed his way or moving to the right. 

And let's not forget the importance of having a good/great LT protecting your QB. If the QB feels safer, then they can play freer and better. 

And, well, we don't have one of those right now. We do have receivers, excellent to great ones. On board, ready to roll. 

Take the tackle, leave the cannolis.

[shaqattaq]

7 hours ago, Agent Blue said:

9 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

A lot of you want to bargin bin hunt on wrs which i get, but I dont want to pass on a hof caliber talent like Chase for a maybe good LT like Slater... He played well vs Chase young is all i hear but what else...Give me the more talent players and i will bargin on the position with a deeper base pool after that.

massive difference in position value. 

a good LT is just better than a great WR. 

I gotta side with Agent Blue on this one. I think WR is a luxury pick for us this year. We already have a great WR in DJ, a pretty fugging good WR in Anderson, and picked up a "not too shabby" TD machine in David Moore, 6 TD's and 18 1st downs on 35 catches last year. Granted, there's a good chance we lose either DJ or Anderson next year due to both being up for a pay day, but that's next year's problem.

Edited April 19, 2021 by shaqattaq

[micnificent28]

15 hours ago, Agent Blue said:

massive difference in position value. 

a good LT is just better than a great WR. 

A good LT isn't necessarily good. We don't know how good that is. Good could turn into average.. I don't want average vs hof. Yes positional value but the same could be said for better WR. If their grades aren't even close you go with the grade. I assume chase is miles ahead of slater.

[Basbear]

Safety is a surprise for me, I dont see the great need for depth.

RB has CMC.

 

EVERY other group needs upgrading and depth. Amazed Rhule was able win 5 with this team and stay close in other games. 

[micnificent28]

8 hours ago, shaqattaq said:

I gotta side with Agent Blue on this one. I think WR is a luxury pick for us this year. We already have a great WR in DJ, a pretty fugging good WR in Anderson, and picked up a "not too shabby" TD machine in David Moore, 6 TD's and 18 1st downs on 35 catches last year. Granted, there's a good chance we lose either DJ or Anderson next year due to both being up for a pay day, but that's next year's problem.

It is a luxury but only in the short term off what you just suggested. If we are losing one for sure next year you reset the clock. It's not like we don't have options at LT, Erving, little, daily and mov we moton to a degree. We could get a good LT in the second. My point is if the grades are close you go with the BPA.

I DONT think slater and chase are that close. Not that I want chase.. Pitts or sewell are my 1a 1b. After that then I consider chase. Just don't see slater as a hof talent.

[Agent Blue]

5 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

It is a luxury but only in the short term off what you just suggested. If we are losing one for sure next year you reset the clock. It's not like we don't have options at LT, Erving, little, daily and mov we moton to a degree. We could get a good LT in the second. My point is if the grades are close you go with the BPA.

I DONT think slater and chase are that close. Not that I want chase.. Pitts or sewell are my 1a 1b. After that then I consider chase. Just don't see slater as a hof talent.

daniel jeremiah, who has a solid track record of predicting OL players has slater above sewell. 

[micnificent28]

no one wants bpa at this point the huddle is all in on tackle

Edited April 20, 2021 by micnificent28

[micnificent28]

16 minutes ago, Agent Blue said:

daniel jeremiah, who has a solid track record of predicting OL players has slater above sewell. 

he's one of the few... if the only. most are iffy on slater top 10.

[Aussie Tank]

13 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yep, call it BPA if you want, but if you draft to strength you are really drafting BPA. Hurney was the worst at this. That's why we reached for Little in a year where IOL was the strength and we passed on getting a stud C/G and a solid G instead and it was already known that 2020 was a good tackle draft. We did it ass backwards and paid the price.

It’s gotta be ego they gotta be the GM that finds the next rookie gem that others don’t see 

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:02 PM, MHS831 said:

I usually do not start threads (I end them), but when things get a bit dry, I try to find something to stir it up a bit.  This article is about 4 weeks old, but since we are starved for new content during this "calm before the storm" period, I thought we would revisit/visit it for the first time.  It sure seems like a good year to be us. 

First, any year you have 4 QBs going in the top 10 (likely) with the possibility of 2 more creeping into round 1, that is a good QB class and it deserves to be the top position group.  So you might be thinking with your brains, "Why are the Panthers not all up in that QB frenzy in round 1?  Why did they trade for a player that seems to be on the cusp of bustdom?"  Well, they think they can change Darnold's fate and at #8, you are hoping for the 4th best QB who may not be the best fit for your system.  The Tanneyhill effect was huge, and I am sure they heard from a lot of folks who understand what it was like to play in NY.  So we get our young QB prospect for 1 second rounder next year and some day 3 picks.  Some say we paid too much.  That remains to be seen, but if he does what I think he can do, we stole him.

2. OFFENSIVE TACKLE:  I disagree, however, that QBs are the top position group because they have 4 top 10 players. If you stretch the scope to the first 2 rounds, the best position group is unquestionably Offensive Tackle.  

"As things stand, PFF has a first-round grade on seven offensive tackles and Day 2 grades on six more. That’s a LOADED class. While last year’s group was top-heavy, this year’s has serious depth. There’s a chance you’ll be able to find immediate starters leaking into the second round, which is something that rarely happens at the position."

So what does that mean, if you are the GM trying to meet as many needs as you can during the draft?  We can wait and grab a T at 39?  Maybe. 

3. WIDE RECEIVER: I know some of you are against a first round WR, but if you look at the fact that we could get a starting T in the second round and we would love to give Darnold all the weapons possible, how does Fitterer not start frothing at the mouth when he sees what might be sitting there at #8? I imagine the Panthers are looking beyond 2021 when they make a pick, and our WR corps will be getting expensive soon, when Moore decides his payday is here.  Anderson and Moore are not locked into long-term deals, and we did very little to replace Samuel.  Regardless of what we think--what will the panthers think?  We can give Darnold and LT and a weapon of starting quality if we draft a WR then a LT in round 2.   If we take a LT in round 1, what round 2 WRs are ready to start?  I dunno, just spitballing, but if we draft a WR in round 1, understand that we are getting a super talent AND we will probably take a T in round 2 who can play this game.

"If you want that game-changing wide receiver, this is the year to do it. Ja’Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle and DeVonta Smith all rank inside PFF’s top 10 players."

4. INTERIOR OL:  The fourth most stacked position group is interior OL.  That may mean a good C/G is there on day 3.

5. CORNERBACK:  Remember that Fitterer was determined to keep the first 3 picks of the draft when he dealt with the Jets to get Darnold.  That trade was not about what we gave up, it was about what we did NOT give up.  If the Panthers agree with PFF, they may feel that they are in position to pull a Chinn and trade back up (or let a CB fall) and get that CB with the third Panther selection.

"The cornerback group features 16 guys in PFF’s top 100, although there are not too many true blue-chippers at the position in the class. The strength is quite clearly throughout Day 2, where there are a ton of intriguing skill sets."

Enjoy the article if you have not already seen it, but it may be a hint towards our draft strategy:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-best-position-groups

 

It's hard to pass on a Sewell or even Slater but this draft is loaded with the positions we most desperately need.   Trading down and having the ability to get a few more talented players would help the long term success.  

But if you trade down.  YOU HAVE TO NAIL THIS DRAFT.   We cannot afford to have a Greg Little Bust on any pick in the first 4 rounds.  

Edited April 20, 2021 by DaveThePanther2008

[MHS831]

21 hours ago, shaqattaq said:

This was apparent to me as well. We're all hoping it's a loooong time before we pick top 10 again, and they wanted to take advantage. Plus Fitterer wants to hit big on his first draft. he's looking to come out of day 2 with 3 instant starters, and there's a good chance to pull it off. I think LT and CB are no brainers, but we could also get a starter at TE, WR, or DL on day 2. I left IOL off the list (even though it's very possible to get a really good G, or even a C here) because of all the offseason moves here. First we re-signed Miller, who was pretty good last year. We also immediately grabbed Elfin and Erving in FA. Both can play across the line. We also picked up Ivey, who will likely play G, if he makes the team. I also noticed that Daley is officially on the roster as a G, IIRC, he was listed as T last season. While most of us are hoping that we absolutely draft a young stud IOL, we really don't have to at this point. As you pointed out, with the depth of this draft, a good G can be found in 4th, 5th, even 6th round. Our best in recent history was undrafted!

I forgot about Ivey.  We are, at least on paper for now, stronger on the OL than we were last year, and that means LT and LG.  I think this draft is terrible for DTs, but I think the OTs are incredible.  In addition, I want a stud WR because we are not as set as it seems at WR, contractually.  I am really anxious to see what Elflein does because I think he might be decent to good.  LT is still a concern---which is why we go there early.

[MHS831]

"BPA is, for the most part, a myth.  You draft to fill needs."

---MHS831, April 20, 2021

 

Agent Blue makes a great point about position value. Others counter with good points.  I look at it on the "rarity" scale.  QBs are the most rare, LTs are probably next, Edge Rushers, etc. 

The good OT vs great WR is a good debate question.

But you have a good OT (Think Moton or his equal on the left side, maybe?) and a great WR (think Julio Jones). Yes, LT is the hardest position to find, but does it make your football team better that Jones?  Hard to say because one keeps your $35m QB standing so he can throw passes to Jones, while the other makes plays that win games. 

What makes the NFL salary cap so great is the fact that it is the biggest equalizer in sports.  You have to choose, and those choices create weaknesses and strengths on every team.  So while a LT is difficult to find, WRs can win games.  It is really a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.  But if the players are equal--

If we draft a Chase or a Waddle I won't be mad, but if we leave Sewell on the board to do it, I will be.

Edited April 20, 2021 by MHS831