Panthers 2020 Offensive Line Ranked 18th of 32

[GoobyPls]

5 hours ago, onmyown said:

Who/what do you use for oline rankings? The OP used PFF and so I used the same metrics for comparison.

Too often I see PFF bashing and by all means if there is a better source please share. Unfortunately complaining is easier than actually offering an alternative.

So unless there are other metrics we want to compare, why complain? Show me other metrics and open discussion. Otherwise what is the point?

This forum loves PFF when it proves their point and bashes it when it doesn’t.  No metrics are perfect and can be picked apart. Oline in particular is very hard to judge.

It called watching your teams game. And no I never use PFF as a legit source, go through my post history.

 

Didn’t someone post some stat showing Darnold gets more time to throw than Teddy.

 

I think Greg Cosell put it best the majority of O-line play in today’s nfl is poor, the difference between the 15th ranked line and the 29th ranked line is so minuscule theirs no point and even ranking them.

[Snake]

I would say 17 is pretty bad when you consider 23 pretty dismal. I would like to see us around 13 or above.

[AU-panther]

 

59 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

It called watching your teams game. And no I never use PFF as a legit source, go through my post history.

 

Didn’t someone post some stat showing Darnold gets more time to throw than Teddy.

 

I think Greg Cosell put it best the majority of O-line play in today’s nfl is poor, the difference between the 15th ranked line and the 29th ranked line is so minuscule theirs no point and even ranking them.

but you aren't watching every other OLine for every snap of their games and I doubt anyone on this forum is.

This is the problem with a fan's eye test, you are grading your team, player, or positional unit against a standard that you have created yourself, and a standard that you are only applying to your team.  That gives you no context.  

By your standard, and you allude to this in your last paragraph, the bottom 2/3s of the league might all have "bad" Olines but that isn't what PFF is trying to say.  They are ranking everyone using a standardized metric, applied uniformly ( in theory, probably not always perfect, but better than anything else) to all of the teams.

As fans we think our O-line is bad, we view it in a vacuum, but in reality when compared to the rest of the league we are probably somewhere in the middle third.

Fans seem to have trouble confusing the difference between subjective terms such as "good" and "bad" and rankings.

If anything fans would probably understand these PFF list better if they grouped them in tiers. 

A typical fan thinks more like:

Great: Teams 1-5

Good: Teams 5-10

Terrible: 10-32

With all that being said, for the last 10 years or so, I think it is safe to say our online has rarely been a strength of our team, but at the same time we probably haven't been as bad as a lot of people think, RELATIVE, to the rest of the league.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael G]

PFF is not perfect but it is fair and non-partial. The QB can also affect the O-line ratings because some just hold on to the ball too long (and sometimes that may be because WR's aren't getting open). Football really is a true team game. I think the best measurement is always wins and losses. Last year our O-line sucked because we lost 11 games, but it wasn't all their fault. The team has a whole lost 11 games so their was plenty of sucking to go around. Hopefully we get more tools and better game-plans and coaching this year and we win more games!

[GoobyPls]

4 hours ago, AU-panther said:

 

but you aren't watching every other OLine for every snap of their games and I doubt anyone on this forum is.

This is the problem with a fan's eye test, you are grading your team, player, or positional unit against a standard that you have created yourself, and a standard that you are only applying to your team.  That gives you no context.  

By your standard, and you allude to this in your last paragraph, the bottom 2/3s of the league might all have "bad" Olines but that isn't what PFF is trying to say.  They are ranking everyone using a standardized metric, applied uniformly ( in theory, probably not always perfect, but better than anything else) to all of the teams.

As fans we think our O-line is bad, we view it in a vacuum, but in reality when compared to the rest of the league we are probably somewhere in the middle third.

Fans seem to have trouble confusing the difference between subjective terms such as "good" and "bad" and rankings.

If anything fans would probably understand these PFF list better if they grouped them in tiers. 

A typical fan thinks more like:

Great: Teams 1-5

Good: Teams 5-10

Terrible: 10-32

With all that being said, for the last 10 years or so, I think it is safe to say our online has rarely been a strength of our team, but at the same time we probably haven't been as bad as a lot of people think, RELATIVE, to the rest of the league.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's my point they are ranking them, but the lines between 15-28 are interchangeable, Our line from a pass blocking pov was bad. If they were any good or even average like this ranking states we wouldn't have cut the majority of them. The only line I can confidently say were worse than ours are the Dolphins, Bengals and Giants, everybody else is a crapshoot.

 

And I  don't even trust their rankings to begin with, how was our line in 2015 that used more max protection than every team in the league ranked second? a good o-line doesn't need to sacrifice receivers for extra blockers. 

[AU-panther]

18 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

That's my point they are ranking them, but the lines between 15-28 are interchangeable, Our line from a pass blocking pov was bad. If they were any good or even average like this ranking states we wouldn't have cut the majority of them. The only line I can confidently say were worse than ours are the Dolphins, Bengals and Giants, everybody else is a crapshoot.

 

And I  don't even trust their rankings to begin with, how was our line in 2015 that used more max protection than every team in the league ranked second? a good o-line doesn't need to sacrifice receivers for extra blockers. 

When PFF says they are good or bad they are referring to relative to other teams.  When you say good or bad you are referring to your personnel benchmark of what you think a good offensive line looks like.  Those are two different statements.  Needless to say you aren't watching every game of every team so you don't have an accurate basis for rankings but you do have enough football knowledge to feel like you team could stand to improve in an area such as pass protection.

PFF saying that there are 14 teams with worse offensive lines then us based on their metric, could very well be a true statement.

You saying that the Panthers have a bad offensive line based on what you think a good offensive line should should look like could also be a true statement.

People have a hard time understanding what PFF is actually doing and saying.

I totally agree with you that over the last decade our pass protection has been poorer than I would like, but this mindset around here that every other team is better than us is ridiculous.

Fans have a bad habit of always thinking in extremes.

 

[onmyown]

I can’t say I’ve say I watched every game for every team but I am an NFL junkie. I love Monday and Thursday night football because going a whole week without any football is dreadful. I watch every gam I get on Sunday plus a couple on my two computers that are out of network. So that’s what...roughly 60+ games or so that aren’t the Panthers?

So not an expert by any means, but I can confidently say the Panthers oline, comparatively speaking, routinely looks like garbage compared to other teams.

From my own perspective I’d guess the Panthers ranked in the bottom 2/3d’s of the league (around 18-20) which is pretty much on par with PFF.

Any of watching or metrics can be picked apart, fact is more of the NFL than not have an oline that looks AND ranks better, from my perspective and PFF ratings.

The only thing separating us from the bottom 5 is Moton. 

Considering you’re not going anywhere without being top 1/3 of the NFL unless you’re breaking records or have a HOF qb, it doesn’t really matter.

It’s like having a decent defense. It doesn’t really matter. It needs to be one of the best.

[GoobyPls]

12 hours ago, AU-panther said:

When PFF says they are good or bad they are referring to relative to other teams.  When you say good or bad you are referring to your personnel benchmark of what you think a good offensive line looks like.  Those are two different statements.  Needless to say you aren't watching every game of every team so you don't have an accurate basis for rankings but you do have enough football knowledge to feel like you team could stand to improve in an area such as pass protection.

PFF saying that there are 14 teams with worse offensive lines then us based on their metric, could very well be a true statement.

You saying that the Panthers have a bad offensive line based on what you think a good offensive line should should look like could also be a true statement.

People have a hard time understanding what PFF is actually doing and saying.

I totally agree with you that over the last decade our pass protection has been poorer than I would like, but this mindset around here that every other team is better than us is ridiculous.

Fans have a bad habit of always thinking in extremes.

 

Nobody has a hard time understanding pff. I already stated the Dolphins, Bengals and Giants are the only line line that are truly worse than ours , the rest are comparable or interchangeable. 

Theirs a stat out there that says Darnold had more time to throw than Teddy yet according to pff the Jets line is was much worse than ours. So there are stats contradicting themselves right there