Are You Really Against Fields or Lance if they fall to #8...

[CPcavedweller]

6 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

Two gloves will be traded or released, he won't be around. We're not done at QB, we have the cap to take the hit on a June 1st designation if we can't find a partner. 

We take a hit whether he's released or traded. The point is that is a lot of capital tied up in one position, so unless you can trade Darnold as well, you let him walk for nothing next year making the trade for him pointless to begin with.

I'm of the opinion that the Panthers Front Office believes Darnold can be the guy and will treat the draft as an opportunity to build around him. Considering he is the age of many Rookie QB's, it isn't farfetched to think that they really considered him a "draft pick".

[firefox1234]

2 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

We take a hit whether he's released or traded. The point is that is a lot of capital tied up in one position, so unless you can trade Darnold as well, you let him walk for nothing next year making the trade for him pointless to begin with.

I'm of the opinion that the Panthers Front Office believes Darnold can be the guy and will treat the draft as an opportunity to build around him. Considering he is the age of many Rookie QB's, it isn't farfetched to think that they really considered him a "draft pick".

Panthers hardly gave much to acquire him in the first place so I don’t know why you feel they would be committed to building around Darnold anymore than Teddy this time last year. The trade for Darnold was purely to give us more flexibility heading in the draft. Whatever extra we get is just gravy.

Edited April 17, 2021 by firefox1234

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Panthers draft strategy is wide open after acquiring Sam.  All things are possible.

[SizzleBuzz]

10 hours ago, Verge said:

Something to do with stuff at Georgia, he does have some processing issues, how he handles pressure, and his motion could be a little more compact. 

I personally don't understand it as I have him as a top 10 pick all day, but it doesn't seem like it will play out that way.

So all this just surfaced in the last 4 weeks?

[weyco2000]

14 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

He had the top Stength of Schedule of of these QBs and lower recruiting rankings than Clemson and Alabama these past two years. Lawrence with Clemson against the ACC would make up a huge talent difference. I guess some people just don’t like Fields so they make up nonsense stars to discredit him.

 

14 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

He had the top Stength of Schedule of of these QBs and lower recruiting rankings than Clemson and Alabama these past two years. Lawrence with Clemson against the ACC would make up a huge talent difference. I guess some people just don’t like Fields so they make up nonsense stars to discredit him.

The ACC finished the season with 5 top 25 teams, 2 made the championship semifinals, the Big 10 finished with 4. The ACC played a full schedule, the Big 10 played 3 or 4 games less. Less games translates to less injury risk, fatigue, having a bad game.... so on and so forth. Cherry picking stats to make your point is like posters pointing out Teddys completion percentage.

[DaveThePanther2008]

18 hours ago, MHS831 said:

OP makes some good points.  I know Rhule has perhaps more involvement (at least he did last year) than some coaches, to a point where the ultimate decision is probably his to approve or deny, and part of coaching is psychology--part of the GM position is playing the numbers.  MAKING IT SIMPLE:  Is Darnold a long-term franchise QB?  Is Fields or Lance?  (like run-run said--if you do not think Darnold is the answer, you take the QB)--however, if you simply do not know:

1. Darnold has the tools, but he was not really their first choice--Stafford and then Watson and now the Darnold move.  It was a shrewd move, because it gives the Panthers options.  However, did it lock the Panthers into a commitment with Darnold? The trade value says "nope."  Yet if the staff has decided to go all in to develop Darnold, do you draft another QB in round 1 (if you do, let's call a duck a duck--that QB is your starter in 2022, in 9 out of 9 situations.)  So if Darnold is to start and you draft a QB in the top 10, does that motivate Darnold or does that discourage his development?  Does it matter?  So what I am saying is this--it is probable that if you draft a QB in the top 8 you have made a decision about Darnold before he has played a down.  Is he insurance or do they think they can fix his mechanics? 

2. Darnold is young (approaching 24) and needs a shot with a good coach, OL, and weapons.  By signing Darnold, you get as much potential as you get in Fields and Lance, and perhaps a shorter learning curve.  Accepting him as your QB gives you options in the draft, options needed if you are serious about making this a championship team.  For example, if Fields is there at 8, I expect a team like New England (if they have not already moved up), or Washington, or Chicago, or maybe even Pittsburgh to move up.  They will offer picks in 2021 and a few in 2022.  Let's say we move back with Washington, a team probably willing to offer their first 3 picks and a second rounder in 2022 (for example).  You agree to trade back, you get a T, CB, WR in the first and second rounds, and Darnold's draft cost is more than covered.  Yes, you miss out on the elite player and settle for 3 very good ones, but in the end, you just got better in every area of concern and your QB is a former third overall pick who is 23 years old.  Oh, and with one of the picks you acquired, trade up later and take Mond or Mills or even Trask.  Develop him and in 2 years, if Darnold does not work out, he gets his chance and you have a QB with 2 years of coaching and some experience under his belt at age 24, ready to play.

My answer---use the fact that Fields or Lance is there as trade bait and build your team by moving back.

Couldn't have said it any better.

We are in a position to put a winning team on the field in 2021.  You can double down on another new QB or you can use that pick and build a good young team.

If Darnold fails we will have two first round picks to move up to get one of the QBs of choice.  This won't be the last year that many good young QBs come out of college.

[top dawg]

16 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

Got to a Superbowl, and had an OROY at the position, the issues were the fact that the management under that time frame was Hurney / Gettleman -- which was overseen by an owner that was forced to sell the team because he was a sexual predator. 

They WASTED Cam's and Luke's prime, and Gettleman's ego blew up a team that went to the playoffs in 2013, and again after a 2015 SB appearance. Ron and them trotted out Byron Bell, and DG drafted the likes of Vernon Butler, Kelvin Benjamin, etc while other options were available to stabilize the OL. For all the ''Hog Molly'' talk we didn't really do poo on the OL outside Turner, and Moton. 

Edmund Kugbila, Amini Silatolu, I can't even think of one LT drafted during Cam's time aside from Little, and we see how that's gone. This team was mismanaged top to bottom, EVEN when they had at least 2 HOF'ers on the roster, arguably three if you include Olsen, it was the biggest piece of inept work I've ever seen. 

And that is the only reason Ron has a job, Cam / Luke got him those COTY awards, we didn't develop anyone behind the starters so when injuries hit we failed. That was the achilles heel beyond shitty roster management, the blind favoritism to vets. 

I think there's a lot of truth here, but I will say something that may not be popular. I think Cam was a good QB that had could have been great. The GM never did enough to protect his blind side, but Cam never did enough to consistently fix his weaknesses as far as inconsistent mechanics, holding on to the ball too long, and simply consistent solid decision making. I don't know how much of the blame goes to the GM and unimaginative, old school OCs and an an HC, and how much of the blame was Cam's. But, it was a combination. Hell, they even drafted twin towers to help Cam out, but then they never got him an exclamation point at LT.

Cam had great moments here--piercing that skin of the elite, but he never completely punched through. And, he is running out of time to get it done. I think this season will be his last opportunity (and I am rooting for him, unless we somehow get in the way). 

I say all this because Luke was truly a great MLB. His elite play and consistency was rock solid! I think Luke was a greater LB than Cam has been a QB. I will admit that it's more difficult to be a great QB, but I don't believe that Cam and Luke should always be necessarily linked as the the main reasons why we were semi-successful during the Rivera era. I believe that Cam was an imperfect cracked wooden crutch that also held us back in some respects, while Luke was made of strong aluminum alloy that we could always depend on to get the job done.

Just an observation and attempt at an objective opinion based over a period of time. It's my take and I'm sticking to it.

[pantherj]

Darnold has proven he knows how to lose, and he was our last choice as a free agent QB. No other teams were interested in trading for Darnold in a QB desperate market. Oh course we are taking Fields and Lance if they fall to 8, and you should be happy about it.

[45catfan]

I'm torn, I think I had the very first seat on the Trey Lance to Carolina bandwagon since winter 2019.  However, if we have a chance at Sewell at #8 then choice isn't quite as clear now that we have Darnold.  I'm still slightly leaning Lance, but would very excited if was Sewell is the pick.  Now, if Lance is skipped over and Sewell (or even Slater) for a WR or DB at #8, yeah, I'm going to be pissed.

[ForJimmy]

3 hours ago, weyco2000 said:

 

The ACC finished the season with 5 top 25 teams, 2 made the championship semifinals, the Big 10 finished with 4. The ACC played a full schedule, the Big 10 played 3 or 4 games less. Less games translates to less injury risk, fatigue, having a bad game.... so on and so forth. Cherry picking stats to make your point is like posters pointing out Teddys completion percentage.

Picking the strength of schedule to answer how hard his schedule is would be cherry picking? The ACC team that was ranked so high was Notre Dame and Lawrence did not play them the first time and the still beat them with a true freshman because Clemson is THAT much better than other ACC teams. You also need to look at the schedule for each team not just the conference as a whole as they don’t always play every team in there conference. If only there was a stat that compared schedules of each team....  Like I said Fields had the top strength of schedule like it or not. Plus he played Clemson AND Alabama in the end.

[ForJimmy]

7 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

So all this just surfaced in the last 4 weeks?

Yeah, right before the draft....

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

I'm torn, I think I had the very first seat on the Trey Lance to Carolina bandwagon since winter 2019.  However, if we have a chance at Sewell at #8 then choice isn't quite as clear now that we have Darnold.  I'm still slightly leaning Lance, but would very excited if was Sewell is the pick.  Now, if Lance is skipped over and Sewell (or even Slater) for a WR or DB at #8, yeah, I'm going to be pissed.

I won’t be upset with Sewell at all! The man was made to play LT.

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

I won’t be upset with Sewell at all! The man was made to play LT.

How about a WR or DB over Sewell at #8?  How would you feel about that?  I've stated my thoughts.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

How about a WR or DB over Sewell at #8?  How would you feel about that?  I've stated my thoughts.

I’d prefer Sewell, but if he isn’t there along with Fields I wouldn’t be terribly upset with one of the big 3 WRs. I think they are the elite talent in this draft. I’m not sure I would consider any CB in this draft elite. If we trade down I’d feel much better about a CB. I think as far as elite talent goes there is Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Sewell, Pitts, Chase, Smith, and Waddle with Slater being pretty close and Lance having the most potential. I’d be happy with any of the elite 8 and ok with the other two at well.