DJ Moore: Only current WR with consecutive 1100+ yard seasons?

[Reebis21]

37 minutes ago, Varking said:

Did you not call a top ten receiver on a rookie deal overrated? You assume you know what he will ask for and what he will get for his next contract. As of right now he’s an absolute steal on a rookie deal and without him Robbie wouldn’t be getting covered by a number 2 corner and Curtis wouldn’t have been covered by a #3 most of the year. And I do believe their efficiency stats would suffer without DJ out there battling the other teams too guys on most plays. 
 

Now, over the last two years, these other guys you are putting over DJ, how many of them have a lesser QB situation that DJ Moore catching the majority of his passes from Kyle Allen and Teddy B?

I don’t think he’s a top 10 receiver and I’m saying overrated cuz some (not all) people on this board grossly overrate his impact. And your right, I am assuming to know what he asks more. But any smart agent would be licking his chops right now given we let Samuel walk and Robby only has one year left. The leverage DJ has right now with no young WR on the roster is by default going to heighten his chances of backing us into a corner...so unless we draft a WR early, I’d be willing to bet his agent asks for top money. That’s his job. 

In regards to QB play, there’s no denying that. So I’m not trying to argue that as it’s a valid point. But I wouldn’t blame DJ’s inability to have a bigger impact solely on the QB.

[Varking]

14 minutes ago, Reebis21 said:

I don’t think he’s a top 10 receiver and I’m saying overrated cuz some (not all) people on this board grossly overrate his impact. And your right, I am assuming to know what he asks more. But any smart agent would be licking his chops right now given we let Samuel walk and Robby only has one year left. The leverage DJ has right now with no young WR on the roster is by default going to heighten his chances of backing us into a corner...so unless we draft a WR early, I’d be willing to bet his agent asks for top money. That’s his job. 

In regards to QB play, there’s no denying that. So I’m not trying to argue that as it’s a valid point. But I wouldn’t blame DJ’s inability to have a bigger impact solely on the QB.

It’s one of the reasons I’m hoping he and Darnold get to work on chemistry now. If he repeats his numbers from years past with a third new QB in 3 years or if his numbers drop closer to 1k but he gets around 7-8 TDs with Sam I’d say we know who he is as a pro and would have a better gauge on his true value. 
 

Id really just like to see what DJ can do with a true franchise QB. 

[WOW!!]

1 hour ago, Varking said:

Did you not call a top ten receiver on a rookie deal overrated? You assume you know what he will ask for and what he will get for his next contract. As of right now he’s an absolute steal on a rookie deal and without him Robbie wouldn’t be getting covered by a number 2 corner and Curtis wouldn’t have been covered by a #3 most of the year. And I do believe their efficiency stats would suffer without DJ out there battling the other teams too guys on most plays. 
 

Now, over the last two years, these other guys you are putting over DJ, how many of them have a lesser QB situation that DJ Moore catching the majority of his passes from Kyle Allen and Teddy B?

Top Dawg ... This is context.. You can't look at stats in black and white preconceptions...

[WOW!!]

I also like to state we did this same type of prescribing overrated/underrated titles to how we felt about James Bradberry.. Look at how that worked out.. Alot of threads about him being overrated, not 1 of the top CB, not worth the money.. Well now he's a pro bowlers.. So now was he overrated and not worth top Cb money??

And this is why I think these kinda of threads are dumb ass fug!! We're constantly questioning our developing talent when we know they are producing for us and have a history that shows what not producing looks like... DJ is literally blowing away KB, Funch, Armanti, Jarret, Lafell, and Kolbert to name the highly picked WR that didn't workout..

Can't we just enjoy one who actually is?

Edited April 10, 2021 by WOW!!

[frankw]

Wide receiver is one of the more coveted positions in the NFL now. As are dominant defensive linemen. We have a few of those approaching new contracts soon. If that is what you are worried about you should be asking why we invested 100 million dollars in two lesser valued positions in the midst of a rebuild.

[Reebis21]

34 minutes ago, Varking said:

It’s one of the reasons I’m hoping he and Darnold get to work on chemistry now. If he repeats his numbers from years past with a third new QB in 3 years or if his numbers drop closer to 1k but he gets around 7-8 TDs with Sam I’d say we know who he is as a pro and would have a better gauge on his true value. 
 

Id really just like to see what DJ can do with a true franchise QB. 

Well I’m definitely with ya on that!

[BigTeddyFan]

Funny how so much was made early on regarding the lack of chemistry between DJ and Teddy, yet here we are. With another season I expect Teddy and DJ’s chemistry to further improve (after this Darnold experiment has run its course).

[Call Me James]

Oh no, another Huddle thread bashing DJ Moore. 

I can't wait to see the whining when he leaves. 

[Stumpy]

3 hours ago, Varking said:

Can’t comment on Facebook but the tweet is the original post about this, roughly a month ago. It then made its rounds on Reddit through the Panthers sub and the NFL sub. When it hit the NFL sub it was shared here. That covers 3/4 of those social sites and I doubt anyone wanting to have a serious conversation about things is going to reference Facebook. 
 

Moving onto the statement DJ Moore is a middle of the road WR because 1200 yards is good enough to be 10-15 most years in the NFL. 32 teams, 64 starting WRs, being 12-15th is absolutely not middle of the road. That’s in the top 1/3. Middle of the road is your average player. He’s way beyond that. 
 

Now if you want to include tight ends in this as “pass catchers” you have 32 tight ends starting in the NFL so now we are grading 96 players and he’s still in that top 10-15 range, right? Being in the top 10-15% of the pass catchers in the NFL isnt middle of the road. It’s fantastic. It’s great. It’s borderline elite. 
 

I wouldn’t put him into elite company yet because I need to see him with better QB play but if DJ Moore is a guy you’re going to get 1200 yards out of every year going forward then he is an elite player. It’s only been two seasons in a row and he’s young so in need to see it for longer but I don’t agree one bit that this stat helps to serve your agenda that he is a middle of the road WR. 

Alright dude, I believe you. You were clearly the only person I could've seen post one of the 2 original stats. Spare me the network forensics.

Moving on to your next point, you're right.  I typed starter when in my head I was thinking a teams top WR. I should've said X Receiver.

I do consider Moore a top tier starting NFL receiver. But, as a number one guy (which is the role he has had since the day he was drafted) he leaves something to be desired. I don't see teams gameplanning to take him away, or rolling coverages his way when they don't. 

Maybe we just have different definitions of elite. I would have a hard time calling any WR who gets beat out by a TE in a 16 game season elite. 

[Stumpy]

15 minutes ago, BigTeddyFan said:

Funny how so much was made early on regarding the lack of chemistry between DJ and Teddy, yet here we are. With another season I expect Teddy and DJ’s chemistry to further improve (after this Darnold experiment has run its course).

@jdr6000?

[Stumpy]

There are tiers of receivers, I think we're can all agree on that. 

- HOFers: 2 or 3 at any given time

- All Pros: maybe 5 or 10

- Pro Bowlers: 10-15 with opt outs

- X Receivers: 32

- Starters: ~80 in a pass happy NFL

- JAGs: 200 or so

- Camp Fodder: probably 1000

Some fans on here act like DJ is tier 1 or 2 despite never earning a single All Pro vote.

With the moves the team has made, Moore is poised to be paid in the 2-3 range.

His stats show he is somewhere between tier 3 and 4. And his lack of Pro Bowl honors backs that up.

Anyone who points that out is apparently putting him in tier 6 or 7 with most of the rest of the WRs the Panthers have drafted in franchise history. 

[1of10Charnatives]

To me the more important issue than whether DJ is elite or not is whether having an elite receiver seems to make much difference in winning Super Bowls. In the past decade, of the 10 SB winning rosters, the only WR who was playing at an elite level the year his team won that I can think of is MAYBE Tyreek Hill for the Chiefs when they won. Other than that, WR play on SB winning teams tends to be solid, not spectacular.

Aside from SB winners, if you just examine overall winning teams compared with teams that have elite WR's, I'd say subjectively it looks to me like there is little correlation between having a truly elite WR and overall team success.

When factoring in Brady's success as an elite qb known to have played with average to good WR's but rarely elite, but who famously just throws the ball to the guy who is open, I'd posit that it's possible truly elite WR's may be a net negative to winning because while they do have to be game planned against, perhaps they warp their own team's offense towards their own production in a fashion that leads to flashy stats for one player, but not more W's for the team.

Right now and in recent memory, who are the truly elite WR's?

Collectively, what have they actually won?

Edited April 10, 2021 by 1of10Charnatives

[Mage]

23 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

There are tiers of receivers, I think we're can all agree on that. 

- HOFers: 2 or 3 at any given time

- All Pros: maybe 5 or 10

- Pro Bowlers: 10-15 with opt outs

- X Receivers: 32

- Starters: ~80 in a pass happy NFL

- JAGs: 200 or so

- Camp Fodder: probably 1000

Some fans on here act like DJ is tier 1 or 2 despite never earning a single All Pro vote.

With the moves the team has made, Moore is poised to be paid in the 2-3 range.

His stats show he is somewhere between tier 3 and 4. And his lack of Pro Bowl honors backs that up.

Anyone who points that out is apparently putting him in tier 6 or 7 with most of the rest of the WRs the Panthers have drafted in franchise history. 

Lol who cares about the Pro Bowl. I guess we shouldn’t re-sigh Brian Burns either right?

[1of10Charnatives]

4 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

To me the more important issue than whether DJ is elite or not is whether having an elite receiver seems to make much difference in winning Super Bowls. In the past decade, of the 10 SB winning rosters, the only WR who was playing at an elite level the year his team won that I can think of is MAYBE Tyreek Hill for the Chiefs when they won. Other than that, WR play on SB winning teams tends to be solid, not spectacular.

Aside from SB winners, if you just examine overall winning teams compared with teams that have elite WR's, I'd say subjectively it looks to me like there is little correlation between having a truly elite WR and overall team success.

When factoring in Brady's success as an elite qb known to have played with average to good WR's but rarely elite, but who famously just throws the ball to the guy who is open, I'd posit that it's possible truly elite WR's may be a net negative to winning because while they do have to be game planned against, perhaps they warp their own team's offense towards their own production in a fashion that leads to flashy stats for one player, but not more W's for the team.

Right now and in recent memory, who are the truly elite WR's?

Collectively, what have they actually won?

They get paid a ton, but that outsized pay doesn't to my mind seem to result in greater team success. This leads me to the premise that perhaps elite WR play contributes less to winning than a lot of fans are inclined to assume in an era where fantasy football stats dominate a lot of fan thinking.