DJ Moore: Only current WR with consecutive 1100+ yard seasons?

[Mage]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

It is my opinion that Moore is a good receiver. His production has been good (and, no, I'm not going to split hairs about QBs because most receivers have to play with imperfect QBs). D.J. has been good, but not great. That's just what it is. "Great" in reference to Moore can only be found on the Huddle. He's a good receiver that opposing DCs aren't overly concerned with game planning for at this point in his career. Whether he'll take another step remains to be seen, but if he does, he's going to have to improve upon his route running, and make himself a more consistent target. He only has 10 TDs in three years! You can't attribute all of that to QB play. Being that he is good, he deserves a good contract, just not a great one. If he comes out and dominates games consistently this coming season and has a season like Golladay in 2019 or maybe even a Justin Jefferson 2020 type of season, then we can talk about that great money, but if his 2021 season is the same as his last three, then you have to ask, "Are we going to pay D.J. top dollar even though he's never played to top-dollar level?" For me, it's as simple as that!  if you guys don't like it--well I would prefer that you actually understand the argument--tough! We don't have to agree on everything, but at least try and understand the argument.

It's a flawed argument though.  What are the odds that DJ Moore has peaked already?  Unlikely.  Unless you are a physical god like Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones, it's difficult to produce at what you consider a "great" level at 23 years old.  In fact, Moore has more receiving yards in his first 3 years than Johnson did.

Yes, he can further improve upon his route-running, but you don't pay a player because of how good he was.  You pay a player because of how good you think he can be over the next 4 or 5 years or however long the contract is.  And again, what reason do we have to think that he won't make that next step?  That is my point.  You guys keep holding it against him for not being great yet, and that being a reason why we shouldn't pay him big money, when in reality there is no reason to think he isn't on that trajectory.  Sh*t just takes time, and the fact is Moore has played extremely, extremely well given the circumstances. 

This reminds me of the Antonio Brown situation.  And no, I am not saying Moore is or will ever be as good as AB.  However, a lot of people felt the Steelers overpaid when they re-signed Brown (a lot of people forget that he wasn't seen as good as Mike Wallace for a time).  Between 2011-2013, Brown "only" had 15 touchdowns, the same kind of lackluster touchdown production you seem to be holding against Moore.  And look what Brown did in the years after.  

That is all I'm saying.  It's a stupid debate.  Of course you re-sign DJ Moore.  He's played about as well as you can expect a receiver that isn't a freak to play in his first 3 years.  It's foolish to think he's peaked.  And I'm not treating you like you aren't educated, because I respect you as a poster.  But you guys seem to have way too high of expectations.  I mean look what the Bills did with Diggs (another receiver Moore compares favorably too... and go look at Diggs' first 3 years).  By your own accord you think the Bills screwed up by trading a 1st for Diggs because Diggs numbers weren't elite his first 3 years.  But again, you don't pay for a player because of what he has done, you pay a player for what he will do.  Letting a good 23 year old receiver walk from your team would be absolutely foolish on the Panthers end.  There is absolutely zero reason to think Moore will stop progressing or that he has peaked at what he is right now.

Now sure, if you think it is reasonable to think DJ Moore right now will still be the same quality receiver at 27 years old, then maybe I get your point.  But what basis do you have to think he isn't capable of making that next step?  I'll say it again.  You pay a player for what he can do (or you reasonably think he can do) over the length of his contract, not because of what he did prior.  Too often people expect guys to be All-Pros off rip.  Yes I'm gonna call DJ Moore great because I think for his age that is what he has been, but also because I look at his skill-set and think he's a guy that is only going to get better with age.  You re-sign him for that reason; guys built like him and that play like him (Diggs, AB) typically reach their peak around 26.  

And that is all I'm saying.  I'm just tired of people acting like Moore gets some undue credit.  He's done his job and he's done it well and he's on a very good trajectory for where he is.  Instead you'll get people (not saying you) acting as if he's underachieved or something.  Bullcrap.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Mage

[Mage]

56 minutes ago, Varking said:

^ Can’t believe this dude doesn’t want to bring up QB play into the picture 

Right?  Besides, there is one thing to have bad QB play, but it is another thing to have bad QBs who can't even play to your skill-set.  Moore likely has an extra 200 yards with a QB who can push it downfield more consistently, even if the rest of their game is bad.

Same thing happened to Hopkins.  In 2016 he had less than 1,000 yards and only 4 TDs. If a QB can't play well to your skill-set then it's hard to play well, again unless you are an absolute beast of a receiver.  And those guys are rare.  

[Mage]

Moore can ball.  His ability to make plays deep is extremely underrated, and unfortunately hasn't been showcased enough.  There is a reason why the Panthers moved fast to get rid of Teddy.

I'm telling you.  Under any scenario where we don't re-sign Moore, we are going to regret it, big time.  

[top dawg]

5 minutes ago, Mage said:

It's a flawed argument though.  What are the odds that DJ Moore has peaked already?  Unlikely.  Unless you are a physical god like Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones, it's difficult to produce at what you consider a "great" level at 23 years old.  In fact, Moore has more receiving yards in his first 3 years than Johnson did.

Yes, he can further improve upon his route-running, but you don't pay a player because of how good he was.  You pay a player because of how good you think he can be over the next 4 or 5 years or however long the contract is.  And again, what reason do we have to think that he won't make that next step?  That is my point.  You guys keep holding it against him for not being great yet, and that being a reason why we shouldn't pay him big money, when in reality there is no reason to think he isn't on that trajectory.  Sh*t just takes time, and the fact is Moore has played extremely, extremely well given the circumstances.  Again, let's look at similarity built receivers and see how they did in their first few seasons.  

This reminds me of the Antonio Brown situation.  And no, I am not saying Moore is or will ever be as good as AB.  However, a lot of people felt the Steelers overpaid when they re-signed Brown (a lot of people forget that he wasn't seen as good as Mike Wallace for a time).  Between 2011-2013, Brown "only" had 15 touchdowns, the same kind of lackluster touchdown production you seem to be holding against Moore.  And look what Brown did in the years after.  

That is all I'm saying.  It's a stupid debate.  Of course you re-sign DJ Moore.  He's played about as well as you can expect a receiver that isn't a freak to play in his first 3 years.  It's foolish to think he's peaked.  And I'm not treating you like you aren't educated, because I respect you as a poster.  But you guys seem to have way too high of expectations.  I mean look what the Bills did with Diggs (another receiver Moore compares favorably too... and go look at Diggs' first 3 years).  By your own accord you think the Bills screwed up by trading a 1st for Diggs because Diggs numbers weren't elite his first 3 years.  But again, you don't pay for a player because of what he has done, you pay a player for what he will do.  Letting a good 23 year old receiver walk from your team would be absolutely foolish on the Panthers end.  There is absolutely zero reason to think Moore will stop progressing or that he has peaked at what he is right now.

Well actually Buffalo took a swing and paid Diggs. I don't blame them. Diggs was on the upswing. He not only had solid production on his resumé, but he was also a legit scoring threat and had displayed absolutely superior route running. On the flipside of that, Minnesota did not pay him and drafted Justin Jefferson who had a great rookie year, and looks to be every bit of the route runner and playmaker that Diggs is, and may be legitimately better. Now, I could be wrong--because it's an opinion--but I'd say that Minnesota got the better value and probably better receiver in that equation. But, we'll see.

On an off note, I will tell you this: if Ja'Marr Chase is somehow there at 8 when we're on the clock, don't be surprised if we don't run to the podium with his name on the card. He is the real deal!

[frankw]

This thread is a good example of people seeking to argue for the sake of arguing and unwilling to relent and admit they were even a little bit wrong. Sometimes we have a misinformed take just let it go and learn it's football not rocket science.

There have been dozens upon dozens of discussions over the years agonizing over which third or fourth string receiver on our roster will finally have that moment and take another step. How many times did it actually happen? Now we finally have a talented wide receiver who looks like a #1 with subpar signal callers throwing to him and the most relevant topic you can talk about is how overrated he is? Where he is statistically compared to his peers in the league is irrelevant until we have a capable quarterback who can throw him the ball. Be thankful we have such a talent even worth discussing and stop focusing so hard on tearing him down because it's April and you're bored.

[Car123]

Only on the Huddle would posters suggest re-signing a soon to be 30 year old WR over a 23 year old WR that has been the one of the best receivers in the league, and is about to enter his prime.

[saX man]

I love DJ. He's always given me Tory Holt vibes. 

[Stumpy]

6 hours ago, Mage said:

And again, what reason do we have to think that he won't make that next step?  That is my point.

What reason do we have to think that he will? 

What tangible improvement has DJ made to his game since coming into the league? 

CMC, Samuel, Anderson all markedly improved as pass catchers with the Panthers.

They had the same QBs. I'll grant that DJ hasn't had a passer who could take advantage of his deep game. But, Robby and Curtis were supposed to be solely deep threats coming into this league. 

So the Tedd Ginn type burners were able to take advantage of a dink and dunk QB. But, the complete #1 WR couldn't? 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Stumpy

[Shocker]

You resign Moore, period

[Carl Spackler]

lol at this thread. Trash take.

[Carl Spackler]

I guess it's true that every player has a hater like PFFL was for Cam in 2011

[Carl Spackler]

4 hours ago, Stumpy said:

What reason do we have to think that he will? 

What tangible improvement has DJ made to his game since coming into the league? 

Significantly better route runner and contested catch-maker than in 2018. Been pointed out before. Not that anything will change your mind.

[CPF4LIFE]

Unbelievable the hate Moore gets.

[Car123]

5 hours ago, Stumpy said:

What reason do we have to think that he will? 

What tangible improvement has DJ made to his game since coming into the league? 

CMC, Samuel, Anderson all markedly improved as pass catchers with the Panthers.

They had the same QBs. I'll grant that DJ hasn't had a passer who could take advantage of his deep game. But, Robby and Curtis were supposed to be solely deep threats coming into this league. 

So the Tedd Ginn type burners were able to take advantage of a dink and dunk QB. But, the complete #1 WR couldn't? 

He has improved his ball security. Good at deep balls. Also improved a lot in route running. Remember in college, most of his receptions  came from screens, catches near the line of scrimmage.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Car123