Spent time watching all of Darnold's throws over the past three years. My conclusion...

[*FreeFua*]

27 minutes ago, gorillamilitia13 said:

He can become elite

I know Palmer is his dude and all but yah...

[BrianS]

6 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

all I know is it has been a lot of losing with Tepper and the biggest gamble is Rhule 

To be fair, you need to separate Rhule as a front office influencer / participant and Rhule as a coach.

As a coach, I doubt ANYONE could have predicted the level of competence and fight our team showed last year.  We were not an embarrassment.  We were not an easy out (for the majority of games).  As a coach, for a first year in the NFL, with an unproven staff and NO offseason, Rhule showed a lot of promise.

Now, as a front office participant, I do agree.  We've been very hit and miss during the Rhule era.  Robby was great.  Teddy, not so much.  Rasul Douglas, pretty good.  Tahir Whitehead, ugh.  Etc.

The problem is that QB is the most important position on the field.  If you get it wrong, you screw your entire franchise.  When you get it GROSSLY wrong, you can fix it with a high draft pick.  When you get it MOSTLY wrong, ore PARTLY wrong, it's even worse because you don't have a pick high enough to fix it with.

[pantherclaw]

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I disagree, from what I saw he has a cannon that can throw ropes into coverage

Completely agree. His arm strength is legit. 

[hepcat]

3 hours ago, Zod said:

A second round pick and a rookie contract isn't gambling big time. Teddy was much more of a gamble. 

Totally disagree. Bridgewater was the opposite of gambling, he was a safe bet. The team knew what they were getting with him, and he delivered the expected results. A safe QB with a weak arm and limited physical skills, good for high completion percentages and game manager style play. Problem is, the team needed more than that out of the QB position on such a bad roster, and they paid Bridgewater way too much money.

On the other hand, Darnold is a straight up bad QB. Borderline horrible. The Panthers are gambling big he can maximize his potential with a better coaching staff and more talent around him. It's definitely a worthwhile bet, but the gamble is much bigger. Bridgewater did what he was expected to do. Darnold is going to need to fundamentally change who he is on the football field to be successful. That's a bigger gamble than Bridgewater was.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, hepcat said:

Totally disagree. Bridgewater was the opposite of gambling, he was a safe bet. The team knew what they were getting with him, and he delivered the expected results. A safe QB with a weak arm and limited physical skills, good for high completion percentages and game manager style play. Problem is, the team needed more than that out of the QB position on such a bad roster, and they paid Bridgewater way too much money.

On the other hand, Darnold is a straight up bad QB. Borderline horrible. The Panthers are gambling big he can maximize his potential with a better coaching staff and more talent around him. It's definitely a worthwhile bet, but the gamble is much bigger. Bridgewater did what he was expected to do. Darnold is going to need to fundamentally change who he is on the football field to be successful. That's a bigger gamble than Bridgewater was.

We dont know that for a fact.  What qb's in the nfl now could develop with these factors against you?

Weird injuries, terrible coaching, terrible oline, terrible weapons and thrown straight to the wolves at the age of 20 from the jump with no acclimation period.

 

56 starting lineman in 3 years.

 

 

[hepcat]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

We dont know that for a fact.  What qb's in the nfl now could develop with these factors against you?

Weird injuries, terrible coaching, terrible oline, terrible weapons and thrown straight to the wolves at the age of 20 from the jump with no acclimation period.

 

56 starting lineman in 3 years.

 

 

I don't disagree that Darnold was in a sh*t situation on the Jets. But you have to call a spade a spade - Darnold straight up sucked on the Jets. I don't expect him to magically become a good QB just because he's on on the Jets anymore. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow. 

[joemac]

3 hours ago, Kuechly said:

I had this thought last night, pay Kuechly to room with Darnold and teach him how to properly study film. 

Room with him?  These are grown men with families.  

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I don't disagree that Darnold was in a sh*t situation on the Jets. But you have to call a spade a spade - Darnold straight up sucked on the Jets. I don't expect him to magically become a good QB just because he's on on the Jets anymore. If he does, I'll gladly eat crow. 

What qb in the nfl could thrive in that situation?

[Waldo]

16 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

Yep

people talk about gambling and the QBs and ‘painting themselves in a corner

the person who did those things was Matt Rhule 

1. Teddy is here because Matt and Joe loved him.  
2. Cam isn’t here because they didn’t love him.

3. Then, he no longer loved the anti Cam in Bridgewater and ran his mouth about it

4.  Then they win  a game that cost them in the Qb sweepstakes  

5.  they are outflanked for Stafford and Watson couldn’t keep his penis covered and here we are 

6. Now, they are dumpster diving to try and reclaim yet another qb

all I know is it has been a lot of losing with Tepper and the biggest gamble is Rhule 

 

 

 

Even with Hurney in the mix last year, Rhule looks to be where the blame falls. There isn't a way to spin it yet otherwise. If anything, the Sam deal reinforces how bad we could have done in a blockbuster trade. I do not trust this crew's team building skills at all and they have not earned the right to realistically talk about winning until they do some of it. 

If I am going to go down fantasy lane, maybe we fug up another year and Tepper finally grows a pair and hires a great GM and takes roster control away from Rhule. I think it's the space he would thrive in if he allowed it, very good coach with zero positive team building skills or experience in the NFL. So far Fritters looks to not have brought any positives with him, he was a Teddy hire at GM for real. If he has a Seattle quality draft I am all for calling it a bad hire, warm body with a compatible personality but lacking any positive GM skills who is at best super green. So far we are overcommitted to relying on too many injury prone guys and his Oline pickups are trash. 

[Waldo]

9 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Totally disagree. Bridgewater was the opposite of gambling, he was a safe bet. The team knew what they were getting with him, and he delivered the expected results. A safe QB with a weak arm and limited physical skills, good for high completion percentages and game manager style play. Problem is, the team needed more than that out of the QB position on such a bad roster, and they paid Bridgewater way too much money.

On the other hand, Darnold is a straight up bad QB. Borderline horrible. The Panthers are gambling big he can maximize his potential with a better coaching staff and more talent around him. It's definitely a worthwhile bet, but the gamble is much bigger. Bridgewater did what he was expected to do. Darnold is going to need to fundamentally change who he is on the football field to be successful. That's a bigger gamble than Bridgewater was.

In the end, we will have probably overpaid for both. 

[hepcat]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

In the end, we will have probably overpaid for both. 

You're probably right. I'm really disappointed in the direction the team has taken since Tepper bought the team. We went from having Cam Newton playing some of his best football in early 2018 to having to find a way to be excited about noodle-armed Teddy Bridgewater and former Jets QB bust Sam Darnold. It's a far cry from the badass teams the Panthers fielded in the 2010s.

Really makes it hard to get excited for next season.

[hepcat]

10 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

What qb in the nfl could thrive in that situation?

Deshaun Watson probably could have. He didn't have much better to work with in Houston and he still put up monster stats. Just goes to show you it's more important to have a good team around the QB position than it is to just have a superstar QB. Hence why my original comment in this thread was to continue building up the defense.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Deshaun Watson probably could have. He didn't have much better to work with in Houston and he still put up monster stats. Just goes to show you it's more important to have a good team around the QB position than it is to just have a superstar QB. Hence why my original comment in this thread was to continue building up the defense.

So it takes a top 3 qb in the league to overcome all of those variables.  Got it.

 

And look at the super bowl Mahoomes looked ordinary running for his life.

[raleigh-panther]

28 minutes ago, BrianS said:

To be fair, you need to separate Rhule as a front office influencer / participant and Rhule as a coach.

As a coach, I doubt ANYONE could have predicted the level of competence and fight our team showed last year.  We were not an embarrassment.  We were not an easy out (for the majority of games).  As a coach, for a first year in the NFL, with an unproven staff and NO offseason, Rhule showed a lot of promise.

Now, as a front office participant, I do agree.  We've been very hit and miss during the Rhule era.  Robby was great.  Teddy, not so much.  Rasul Douglas, pretty good.  Tahir Whitehead, ugh.  Etc.

The problem is that QB is the most important position on the field.  If you get it wrong, you screw your entire franchise.  When you get it GROSSLY wrong, you can fix it with a high draft pick.  When you get it MOSTLY wrong, ore PARTLY wrong, it's even worse because you don't have a pick high enough to fix it with.

I appreciate the point however the buck stops with Rhule and the person who hired him   Rhule and Brady made significant coaching mistakes in games last year and hopefully with year two they are better 

too, anybody who thinks the amiable  Rhule was along for the ride with Hurney in the Bridgewater fiasco is mistaken 

there was also significant turnover in the coaching staff  who knows how that goes 

Rhule may have had influencers in Parcells and Coughlin but he still smacks of Div 1 

Brady is the same.  Carolina  is nothing more than a jumping off point for him and look, I don’t care about anyone looking for the next great move but I sure as hell don’t want an offensive system built, including players,  exclusively on his vision of Sean Peyton .

Edited April 6, 2021 by raleigh-panther