Gunslinger or Game Manager

[Harbingers]

gun slinging game manager duh.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Teddy is a "game manager" only in the sense that he manages to lose games.

[Khyber53]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

A game manager just won the Super Bowl.

A literal handful of them beyond that one, too.

You want a guy who can control the game, dictate the pace of it and make use of every weapon on the field while exploiting any defensive weaknesses. That's game management. That's not a pejorative. It is a big time skill set and requires a massive capability to process, an accurate arm, the guts to hang in there, pocket awareness and a fair amount of guts to make the throw or take the sack as necessary.

The good ones are rare. They often have a ring or two or three.

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I mean you can argue Rodgers, Peyton, etc are all the ideal game manager.  Part of being a great game manager is to know when and where you have to take calculated shots.   They routinely play for another down or series.  They also know when to chuck it deep.  They know the moments you can and can’t play it safe.  

Teddy IMO isn’t actually a game manger per my view.  Teddy is risk adverse.   

My post was meant mostly for a non-franchise type QB.  Brees, Rodgers and Brady (to name a few) are franchise QBs that do both.    Our chances of getting one of these players this year is quite slim.  

Which is why I asked Gunslinger or Game Manager

[Sgt Schultz]

Brady has been a game manager most of his career, he is just extremely good at it.   His last two Super Bowls were 13-3 and 31-9.  Our TB could win games if the defense held the opponent to 3 FGs, at worst, especially if the league decided to change what the officials.

Brady picks his spots are winging it downfield and generally making "the right throw."  What separates him is his judgement of when to wing it downfield.  You generally will not Brady drop back and say "here goes nothing," which is why Arians needed to shut up and let Brady be Brady.

By strict definition, Montana was a game manager.  Elway started out as a gunslinger, but by the time they won two Super Bowls he was a game manager.  Peyton Manning won two Super Bowls as a game manager during those games (one in a driving rainstorm and one watching his defense carry the load).

Favre and Romo are the most prototypical gunslingers since Jim Kelly.  Between the three of them they have one Super Bowl win and a number of blown chances.

Rodgers is more or less a hybrid. That is probably the sweet spot.

Gunslingers can get you back into or win games in the most phenomenal ways, they can also cost you games in the most head-scratching ways.  Favre threw some of the most mind-boggling interceptions in playoff games I have ever seen.  Romo was known for "choking" at critical times, sometimes maybe unfairly.  Once playoff time rolls around, teams with better defenses bubble up and the defenses that don't classify as better defenses seem to elevate their games.

Gunslingers are exciting to watch, but also frustrating as hell.  They are more exciting than frustrating, the problem is they are often frustrating at the most critical times.

[pantherclaw]

Drew Brees was a textbook game manager. So is Brady for that matter. Who wouldn't want Brady?

I bet every Panther fan would love to have a QB as good as Brees was for the majority of his career. 

They also tend to be more consistent winners here at the NFL level. 

Gunslinger tend to lose more games unless they have a more solid team around them. 

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

My post was meant mostly for a non-franchise type QB.  Brees, Rodgers and Brady (to name a few) are franchise QBs that do both.    Our chances of getting one of these players this year is quite slim.  

Which is why I asked Gunslinger or Game Manager

Well that brings me to the PJ Walker vs Teddy talk of last season.  Neither one is going to allow you to be consistent and successful.  For two very different reasons. 

my preference is the less risk adverse QB.   PJ.   More entertaining.  The total wins IMO will work itself out to about the same.  Give or take a game or so.  

Very few elite QBs aren’t game managers.  We have a tendency to claim weak QBs that don’t make a lot of plays  are game managers.  I disagree with that.  Teddy isn’t a game manager.    He did that poorly.  He is simply risk adverse. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

A gunslinger type works better in a Coryell offense.

We're not running a Coryell.

The type of offense we run is more effective with a game manager type.

Also, if you're making this choice based on who's more exciting to watch rather than who's more likely to win games, you're kinda missing the point of football.

I get your point but not necessarily.  Game Managers only throw to open targets.  They don't give the WR the chance to fight for the ball, gunslingers do.  DJ especially would be one of those WR that would fight a DB for the ball.  Those plays are explosive plays something we sorely miss.

[DaveThePanther2008]

53 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Brady has been a game manager most of his career, he is just extremely good at it.   His last two Super Bowls were 13-3 and 31-9.  Our TB could win games if the defense held the opponent to 3 FGs, at worst, especially if the league decided to change what the officials.

Brady picks his spots are winging it downfield and generally making "the right throw."  What separates him is his judgement of when to wing it downfield.  You generally will not Brady drop back and say "here goes nothing," which is why Arians needed to shut up and let Brady be Brady.

By strict definition, Montana was a game manager.  Elway started out as a gunslinger, but by the time they won two Super Bowls he was a game manager.  Peyton Manning won two Super Bowls as a game manager during those games (one in a driving rainstorm and one watching his defense carry the load).

Favre and Romo are the most prototypical gunslingers since Jim Kelly.  Between the three of them they have one Super Bowl win and a number of blown chances.

Rodgers is more or less a hybrid. That is probably the sweet spot.

Gunslingers can get you back into or win games in the most phenomenal ways, they can also cost you games in the most head-scratching ways.  Favre threw some of the most mind-boggling interceptions in playoff games I have ever seen.  Romo was known for "choking" at critical times, sometimes maybe unfairly.  Once playoff time rolls around, teams with better defenses bubble up and the defenses that don't classify as better defenses seem to elevate their games.

Gunslingers are exciting to watch, but also frustrating as hell.  They are more exciting than frustrating, the problem is they are often frustrating at the most critical times.

True in every case but the point of the post is that unless we have a franchise QB like all the players you mentioned which would you prefer?

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I get your point but not necessarily.  Game Managers only throw to open targets.  They don't give the WR the chance to fight for the ball, gunslingers do.  DJ especially would be one of those WR that would fight a DB for the ball.  Those plays are explosive plays something we sorely miss.

Not really true. Being a game manager style quarterback doesn't make someone risk averse.

I'll grant that gunslinger types are never afraid of taking risks, but being a game manager doesn't mean you avoid them.

That's a character trait, not a style of play thing.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[Sgt Schultz]

20 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I get your point but not necessarily.  Game Managers only throw to open targets.  They don't give the WR the chance to fight for the ball, gunslingers do.  DJ especially would be one of those WR that would fight a DB for the ball.  Those plays are explosive plays something we sorely miss.

But, we also miss the fallout: when the DB wins that fight or puts himself in better position to grab the pick without a fight. 

Mostly, I would prefer a QB that is more of a game manager at the NFL level. 

People tend to reduce this to whether we would rather have Teddy or Mahomes?  That is not a valid comparison.  It is much like asking whether you would rather have Montana or Jameis, the extremes in the other direction.

I consider Brady (and Montana before him) game managers (if the classification is one or the other) because they let their head dictate what their arm will do, not just live or die on their arm. 

Mr.Scot just delineated another misconception.  Game managers quickly assess risk vs. reward. Sometimes the risk is worth it.  Gunslingers believe their arms will overcome any risk.  They are right, until they are not.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Sgt Schultz

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Sgt Schultz said:

But, we also miss the fallout: when the DB wins that fight or puts himself in better position to grab the pick without a fight. 

Mostly, I would prefer a QB that is more of a game manager at the NFL level. 

People tend to reduce this to whether we would rather have Teddy or Mahomes?  That is not a valid comparison.  It is much like asking whether you would rather have Montana or Jameis, the extremes in the other direction.

I consider Brady (and Montana before him) game managers (if the classification is one or the other) because they understand they let their head dictate what their arm will do, not just live or die on their arm. 

Mr.Scot just delineated another misconception.  Game managers quickly assess risk vs. reward. Sometimes the risk is worth it.  Gunslingers believe their arms will overcome any risk.  They are right, until they are not.

I still remember Packer fans cheering when Brett Favre chose to throw one away.

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

I mean you can argue Rodgers, Peyton, etc are all the ideal game manager.  Part of being a great game manager is to know when and where you have to take calculated shots.   They routinely play for another down or series.  They also know when to chuck it deep.  They know the moments you can and can’t play it safe.  

Teddy IMO isn’t actually a game manger per my view.  Teddy is risk adverse.   

Yeah, I want a combination! And I want someone who not only can chuck it deep, but who also times his throws well enough to hit the small windows in such a way that maximizes the receivers ability to gain the most yardage. Teddy is too scared to even do that. 

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

A game manager just won the Super Bowl.

A game manager who will sling the ball down field with managed aggression if you allow him to (and many times, even when you don't).