Don"t Expect Carolina to Trade Up for a QB.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Thanks for further proving my point.

I bet that lottery investment strategy is going well.

What it proves is that a well coached team can be competitive in the NFL without a QB drafted in the first round.  Every Panther fan should know this to be true, as Carolina almost won a Super Bowl with an underrated QB  (and likely would have won if not for an errant kickoff late in the game). 

Edited March 28, 2021 by NanuqoftheNorth

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

What it proves is that a well coached team can be competitive in the NFL without a QB drafted in the first round.  Every Panther fan should know this to be true, as Carolina almost won a Super Bowl with an underrated QB  (and likely would have won if not for an errant kickoff late in the game). 

And you can basically count on one hand the times that a non-elite QB has won a Super Bowl in the past 25 seasons. 

There is a pretty obvious reason for that.

[frankw]

That first super bowl with Jake was nearly two decades ago. You can't achieve future success being scared and living in the past. The league has changed and quarterbacks are in much more demand now and you have to be willing to make calculated risks.  Atlanta was one half of football away from making us the laughing stock of the nfc south as the lone team with a bare trophy cupboard. As it currently stands we have tumbled even further down into the cellar in the time since. The clock is ticking.

[PootieNunu]

7 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

What it proves is that a well coached team can be competitive in the NFL without a QB drafted in the first round.  Every Panther fan should know this to be true, as Carolina almost won a Super Bowl with an underrated QB  (and likely would have won if not for an errant kickoff late in the game). 

Teddy is far from Jake. Jake had the balls to attempt any throw. 

We are not winning poo with him.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

24 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

And you can basically count on one hand the times that a non-elite QB has won a Super Bowl in the past 25 seasons. 

There is a pretty obvious reason for that.

"Non-elite"?

Haven't we been comparing Super Bowl winning QBs drafted in the first round vs QBs drafted in later rounds?  

It's pretty clear you don't need a 1st round QB in order to win a championship.

18 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Teddy is far from Jake. Jake had the balls to attempt any throw. 

We are not winning poo with him.

I tend to agree. Teddy is about as non-clutch of a QB as I've ever witnessed. 

Doesn't mean that the Panthers need to select a 1st round QB, much less give up a boatload of picks in order to be a successful team/win the Super Bowl. 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

"Non-elite"?

Haven't we been comparing Super Bowl winning QBs drafted in the first round vs QBs drafted in later rounds?  

It's pretty clear you don't need a 1st round QB in order to win a championship.

I tend to agree. Teddy is about as non-clutch of a QB as I've ever witnessed. 

Doesn't mean that the Panthers need to select a 1st round QB, much less give up a boatload of picks in order to be a successful team/win the Super Bowl. 

Yeah, that is a different argument. Fair point.

The non-first round QB's stick out precisely because they are outliers. They are the exception, not the rule. Go look at PFR and you'll see how rare it is to have a non-first round QB pan out. It's not exactly something that isn't common knowledge. Hence all my snide remarks. Panthers fans always tend to fixate on these outliers and ignore the trends/history.

I suppose that shouldn't be surprising, as we had two recent GM's that lived on the idea that they knew better than anyone else when it came to drafting. I think that crept into at least a portion of our fans as a mindset. It's also why we have so many fans that cannot wrap their heads around the idea of positional value during the draft.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, that is a different argument. Fair point.

The non-first round QB's stick out precisely because they are outliers. They are the exception, not the rule. Go look at PFR and you'll see how rare it is to have a non-first round QB pan out. It's not exactly something that isn't common knowledge. Hence all my snide remarks. Panthers fans always tend to fixate on these outliers and ignore the trends/history.

I suppose that shouldn't be surprising, as we had two recent GM's that lived on the idea that they knew better than anyone else when it came to drafting. I think that crept into at least a portion of our fans as a mindset. It's also why we have so many fans that cannot wrap their heads around the idea of positional value during the draft.

Of course, every fan is going to want the best QB possible for their team.  The question as always is, at what price?  IMHO, right now, the price is simply too high.

If Carolina was only a handful of players away from competing for a championship, I'd be all in on trading future picks for a QB.

As it stands, the Panthers aren't even close to competing for a championship.  They still have a significant number of key positions in need of an upgrade and that's before taking into account an overall lack of depth.

The Panthers have a realistic opportunity to build an adequate O-line and a strong D for our next franchise QB in the upcoming draft. 

To me, that is preferable to putting the Panthers next crown jewel behind a porous O-line and forcing them to continuously compensate for a D that can't protect a lead.  We asked our last franchise QB to carry the team that way w/his heroics and it didn't end well.

KC and Seattle are two recent examples of teams that were only a QB away from competing, and IMHO, it's an approach worthy of emulating here in Carolina. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by NanuqoftheNorth

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Of course, every fan is going to want the best QB possible for their team.  The question as always is, at what price?  Right now the price is simply too high.

If Carolina was only a handful of players away from competing for a championship, I'd be all in on a QB right now.

As it stands, the Panthers aren't even close to competing for a championship.  They still have a significant number of key positions in need of an upgrade and that's before taking into account an overall lack of depth.

The Panthers have a realistic opportunity to build an adequate O-line and a strong D for our next franchise QB in the upcoming draft. 

To me, that is preferable to putting the Panthers next crown jewel behind a porous O-line and forcing them to continuously compensate for a D that can't protect a lead.  We asked our last franchise QB to carry the team that way w/his heroics and it didn't end well.

KC and Seattle are two recent examples of teams that were only a QB away from competing and an approach worthy of emulating here in Carolina. 

I get balking at the price but finding "the" QB is difficult. Not every attempt works out when you need a guy, first round or not.

I would be all for trading up to get a guy in this draft or trading for another very good QB. Sadly, both those ships have probably sailed. 

Now we should probably just stand pat hope someone falls to us at 8. If not, draft a mid-round QB or sign a veteran QB to shore us up for a season or two. I am not against trading for someone like Minshew, if the price makes sense. 

I don't see any way we can move forward with Teddy this season the way things went. I don't envision it being a positive environment for anyone on the team.

 

 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't see any way we can move forward with Teddy this season the way things went. I don't envision it being a positive environment for anyone on the team.

Agreed, another season of Teddy "No Clutch" doesn't offer much in the way of hope for players or fans.

Unfortunately, TB's contract is something of a millstone around the Panthers neck, limiting near term options.

Who knows?  We may still luck out and get our future QB w/the #8 pick.  If not, there are still plenty of other critical needs that can be addressed w/this draft.

Hard to believe, but only a year ago, we were told by ownership and a new coaching staff that they were building for the long haul and not looking for a quick fix. 

Had they actually kept their word, we wouldn't be asking how to get rid of Teddy right now. 

As it is, when it comes to addressing the QB position, we may have to simply grin and bear it for another year or risk digging ourselves into a deeper hole than we're already in. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by NanuqoftheNorth

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Agreed, another season of Teddy "No Clutch" doesn't offer much in the way of hope for players or fans.

Unfortunately, TB's contract is something of a millstone around the Panthers neck, limiting near term options.

Who knows?  We may still luck out and get our future QB w/the #8 pick.  If not, there are still plenty of other critical needs that can be addressed w/this draft.

Hard to believe, but only a year ago, we were told by ownership and a new coaching staff that they were building for the long haul and not looking for a quick fix. 

Had they actually kept their word, we wouldn't be asking how to get rid of Teddy right now. 

As it is, when it comes to addressing the QB position, we may have to simply grin and bear it for another year or risk digging ourselves into a deeper hole than we're already in. 

Teddy was genuinely a mistake to sign at the contract that we signed him to. I think a lot of us felt that way at the time and in hindsight it even looked worse. 

I am as perplexed as you about what spurred this sudden push to compete. What changed in a year's time from when Tepper was preaching the long term rebuild? Did we perform better than expected? Yeah, but I didn't see us as being close to contending. I saw a year showing we had some nice pieces to build on. Our roster was still just as bad as it was projected to be. 

We will see how this turns out. It's been a very odd offseason with the signings we have made so far. I hope we are able to do better in the draft. At least then we can start to maybe see the light at the end of the tunnel with a couple of more successful drafts.

[Cdparr7]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Teddy was genuinely a mistake to sign at the contract that we signed him to. I think a lot of us felt that way at the time and in hindsight it even looked worse. 

I am as perplexed as you about what spurred this sudden push to compete. What changed in a year's time from when Tepper was preaching the long term rebuild? Did we perform better than expected? Yeah, but I didn't see us as being close to contending. I saw a year showing we had some nice pieces to build on. Our roster was still just as bad as it was projected to be. 

We will see how this turns out. It's been a very odd offseason with the signings we have made so far. I hope we are able to do better in the draft. At least then we can start to maybe see the light at the end of the tunnel with a couple of more successful drafts.

Tepper is a business man and regardless of how much money he has, he is building a giant facility in Rock Hill and probably pushing for a stadium. He knows ticket restrictions are about to fade away over the next year or two and wants the seats full. Also explains why he is willing to sell his soul for a QB like Watson. It puts people in the seats and sells merchandise.

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, Cdparr7 said:

Tepper is a business man and regardless of how much money he has, he is building a giant facility in Rock Hill and probably pushing for a stadium. He knows ticket restrictions are about to fade away over the next year or two and wants the seats full. Also explains why he is willing to sell his soul for a QB like Watson. It puts people in the seats and sells merchandise.

Possibly that it is it. We will see.

[X-Clown]

9 hours ago, Trainwreck said:

Who thought that Tampa would win a Super Bowl champ anytime soon if they could just get a QB? They did. Quarterback runs the NFL. If you have a QB, you’re going to win. 

A lot of people recognized that Tampa had a supremely talented team that was being destroyed by all the short fields that Jameis Winston's turnovers created. It wasn't like Brady elevated a bunch of scrubs to become relevant. They just needed somebody that didn't fug everything up. 

 

[Growl]

2 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

A lot of people recognized that Tampa had a supremely talented team that was being destroyed by all the short fields that Jameis Winston's turnovers created. It wasn't like Brady elevated a bunch of scrubs to become relevant. They just needed somebody that didn't fug everything up. 

 

lol yeah they really went out and got an efficient game manager