Panthers reach rock bottom scenario: roll with Teddy for another year or draft Mac Jones at 8?

[Catsfan69]

2 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

these are still opinions. Do you think general, unsupported statements prove your point? Did Trevor have wide open WRs?  His numbers were not as good.  Do you think your list applies only to Alabama players or could all programs try to do those things?

And some of the statements are simply not true.  Stats like Teddy behind the LOS--etc.  His average pass attempt was 11.2 yards.  Come on, man.  Shoot straight.

I can provide a video that praises Jones--so I am still

His average completion is 11.2 not attempt. YAC count towards that stat. He can throw it 5 yds and Smith run it another 50.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Jones cannot run, but he can move in the pocket.  His arm strength is average.  He processes faster than most other QBs.  He is accurate.

So if anyone can explain it to me why Jones is not going to be a good QB in the NFL, tell me what it is you see.  Remember, Brady just won a ring and he has more rings than all the Super Bowl champs with mobile QBs combined.  So tell me what it is about Jones that makes him such a bad option?   Be specific, and use stats if you can.  And do not say "The league is now all about mobile QBs."  The Tampa Bay Bucs and the Alabama Crimson Tide won titles THIS YEAR. 

Again, be specific and use stats to support your answer.

The Brady comparison is always a terrible comparison. Name another Brady like result with relatively average/above average skill set? Outliers don't define smart moves.

The league has made a move towards guys that are more mobile and have elite skills because it makes your offense so much harder to defend. Jones had very little in the way of elite skill sets. If he DOES have elite processing, that helps a lot. However, he needs things to go right around him to help him be successful(and yes this could be said of many QB's). 

Not having an elite arm or being an elite athlete is always going to make you have to work harder to be successful. Where Lawrence, Fields, Lance or Wilson might be able to throw lasers into windows, Jones isn't going to be able to do that. Where the play breaks down and you need an off platform throw, Wilson can make that. Lance and Fields can punish you scrambling. 

The is the problem with the low ceiling guys, they have to really work hard to achieve an edge. Jones has to be willing to do that. Guys like Brady or Brees don't come around often. Hell, if Bledsoe doesn't get injured, there may be no Tom Brady story. If San Diego doesn't draft Rivers, there may be no Drew Brees story.

 

[OldhamA]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

The Brady comparison is always a terrible comparison. Name another Brady like result with relatively average/above average skill set? Outliers don't define smart moves.

The league has made a move towards guys that are more mobile and have elite skills because it makes your offense so much harder to defend. Jones had very little in the way of elite skill sets. If he DOES have elite processing, that helps a lot. However, he needs things to go right around him to help him be successful(and yes this could be said of many QB's). 

Not having an elite arm or being an elite athlete is always going to make you have to work harder to be successful. Where Lawrence, Fields, Lance or Wilson might be able to throw lasers into windows, Jones isn't going to be able to do that. Where the play breaks down and you need an off platform throw, Wilson can make that. Lance and Fields can punish you scrambling. 

The is the problem with the low ceiling guys, they have to really work hard to achieve an edge. Jones has to be willing to do that. Guys like Brady or Brees don't come around often. Hell, if Bledsoe doesn't get injured, there may be no Tom Brady story. If San Diego doesn't draft Rivers, there may be no Drew Brees story.

 

I think coincidentally Josh Allen is the outlier for raw, athletic QB who needs work on all their fundamentals. 

Yet people are all over drafting Fields or Lance ("The Big 4 QBs").

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, OldhamA said:

I think coincidentally Josh Allen is the outlier for raw, athletic QB who needs work on all their fundamentals. 

Yet people are all over drafting Fields or Lance ("The Big 4 QBs").

Definitely disagree. Mechanical issues are very common in prospects, as are guys that come from gimmicky or one read college offenses. That is actually something the NFL has actually had to adjust to to make that transition easier.

Guys that don't fix mechanical things in the NFL just lack work ethic. That said, there are guys like Mahomes that can make these nutty throws without being perfect. Kyle Wilson is an example of that.

[Pup McBarky]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

The Brady comparison is always a terrible comparison.

I think so too. Think Eli 2.0. That's his ceiling. Not bad, but not a superstar. Capable of winning SBs, like he was capable of winning a NC, but needs a really strong supporting cast. 

[KSpan]

6 hours ago, MHS831 said:

these are still opinions. Do you think general, unsupported statements prove your point? Did Trevor have wide open WRs?  His numbers were not as good.  Do you think your list applies only to Alabama players or could all programs try to do those things?

And some of the statements are simply not true.  Stats like Teddy behind the LOS--etc.  His average pass attempt was 11.2 yards.  Come on, man.  Shoot straight.

I can provide a video that praises Jones--so I am still unconvinced.  You may be right, but I wanted some concrete evidence to support your position.  Did not get anything but hyperbole and cherry-picked video.  He did not have any unfair advantages--he did not have a super team and everyone else had sand lot rejects---he won and did so impressively.  77.4% at an 11.2 yards per attempt, 350 yards per game and 42 TDs vs 4 Ints.  Not many people have come close to that.

Teddy's air yards per attempt was 7.1 (good for 26th in the league) this year with 5.5 per completion 25th), not 11.2. Where are you getting that?

Advanced passing metrics here.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing_advanced.htm

[Waldo]

Option C: Neither. Grab Jag for cheap like Turdbuski.

 

[ForJimmy]

[electro's horse]

I've been thinking about this a lot and I think you just take BPA, roll with BW, and watch the Watson situation during the season. Hope that deteriorates and offer them less of a deal if he starts holding out and missing games. 

Remember, Garappolo was traded for during the season. And even though he was a backup it'd be a similar situation for Houston if Deshaun was holding out. He's not playing anyway, might as well get something for him. Then you roll into 2021 with your dick swinging out and go for it. 

[KSpan]

In this situation the wise thing to do, assuming the staff isn't truly that sold on Jones and doesn't trade out of 8, is to take the best player and hold as they are at QB position. Who know what happens after the draft.

I don't really follow college football so know little about Mac Jones or any of the other prospects and have no opinion on them, but another year of Teddyball is painful to think about.

[mrcompletely11]

8 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Lets say Deshaun doesn't come here, we can't trade up for Wilson or Fields, and someone snatches Lance before pick 8. What the hell do we do?

You guys are just being insane right now.  The statistical odds that all 4 are gone in the top 7 picks is astronomical if not down right improbable.  You have a better chance at winning the lottery than all 4 going in the first 7 picks.

 

However in the once in a lifetime chance it does happen that means most of the top prospects at basically every position has been pushed to 8 making that pick incredibly valuable so a trade back is the only choice.

 

And LOL to you dudes pumping mond.  Godalmighty did any of you watch any of his games?  Can you imagine trying to stomach through him being a qb in a NFL game?   His decision making on par with a 3rd grader and accuracy leaves a ton to be desired.  He has no touch on the ball as well, couple all of that with his jitterness in the pocket and that just says stay the hell away.  He is unfixable

 

Stat from NFL.com  "Completed just 35 percent of intermediate throws outside the numbers (and 26 percent of deep throws outside numbers) in 2020."

 

In short, if we stay at 8 Lance and/or Fields will be there.  Will the panthers have the patience to choose them and let them sit?  Thats the million dollar question

[ForJimmy]

If they are all gone my some miracle we either take an elite LT or trade down. I would be against drafting a project like Newman in the 3rd/4th just to see if we can get lucky and develop him. Worst case is he can be the backup to whomever we draft the next year.

[kungfoodude]

47 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Option Neither. Grab Jag for cheap like Turdbuski.

 

What do we do with Teddy if we go JAG free agent signing, though? Cut him?

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

What do we do with Teddy if we go JAG free agent signing, though? Cut him?

We are not cutting teddy.