Panthers reach rock bottom scenario: roll with Teddy for another year or draft Mac Jones at 8?

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, Varking said:

No Mond please. One of the most inconsistent college QBs of all time. 

He's got arm talent for days.

He makes full field reads.

I'd take him over Jones anyday.

[Varking]

2 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He's got arm talent for days.

He makes full field reads.

I'd take him over Jones anyday.

1) He does have arm talent. 
2) He *can* make full field reads. He often does not and that is part of the reason he has been so up and down during his four years of college. 
3) I don’t want Jones either. If Mond was around in the fourth maybe I’d look at him but I don’t see him being able to start this year and he’s so different from Teddy that I don’t see it being a great learning spot for him for a year or two. It’s just not a good marriage here for him. 

[Catsfan69]

22 minutes ago, Varking said:

1) He does have arm talent. 
2) He *can* make full field reads. He often does not and that is part of the reason he has been so up and down during his four years of college. 
3) I don’t want Jones either. If Mond was around in the fourth maybe I’d look at him but I don’t see him being able to start this year and he’s so different from Teddy that I don’t see it being a great learning spot for him for a year or two. It’s just not a good marriage here for him. 

Lance has to sit for 2 years as well tho. I don't mind drafting the future and having it sit.

[MHS831]

Jones cannot run, but he can move in the pocket.  His arm strength is average.  He processes faster than most other QBs.  He is accurate.

So if anyone can explain it to me why Jones is not going to be a good QB in the NFL, tell me what it is you see.  Remember, Brady just won a ring and he has more rings than all the Super Bowl champs with mobile QBs combined.  So tell me what it is about Jones that makes him such a bad option?   Be specific, and use stats if you can.  And do not say "The league is now all about mobile QBs."  The Tampa Bay Bucs and the Alabama Crimson Tide won titles THIS YEAR. 

Again, be specific and use stats to support your answer.

[Catsfan69]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Jones cannot run, but he can move in the pocket.  His arm strength is average.  He processes faster than most other QBs.  He is accurate.

So if anyone can explain it to me why Jones is not going to be a good QB in the NFL, tell me what it is you see.  Remember, Brady just won a ring and he has more rings than all the Super Bowl champs with mobile QBs combined.  So tell me what it is about Jones that makes him such a bad option?   Be specific, and use stats if you can.  And do not say "The league is now all about mobile QBs."  The Tampa Bay Bucs and the Alabama Crimson Tide won titles THIS YEAR. 

Again, be specific and use stats to support your answer.

He is a QB that only has a 1/3 field arm.

He can't drive the ball downfield. 

He can't drive the ball to the field boundary. (This means from far hash to the opposite boundary.)

He routinely underthrows wide open go routes costing tds.

He can't drive the ball into tight windows. 

 

People keep comparing him to Brady. Brady definitely has more arm talent. 

[MHS831]

15 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He is a QB that only has a 1/3 field arm.

He can't drive the ball downfield. 

He can't drive the ball to the field boundary. (This means from far hash to the opposite boundary.)

He routinely underthrows wide open go routes costing tds.

He can't drive the ball into tight windows. 

 

People keep comparing him to Brady. Brady definitely has more arm talent. 

 

So are all of these your opinions or do you have specific sources?  How can you do what you describe and complete 77.4% of your passes for an average of 350 yards per game?  42 TDs and 4 Ints.  It does not add up. 

If he has all those problems, how did he do that?

Edited March 11, 2021 by MHS831

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

This is all opinion.  Experts I have seen talk about him do not say this.  Where are you getting it?  Not being a smartass, I just want to see the source of this. 

for example, he routinely under throws wide open go routes.  How routinely?  He completed 77.4% of his passes and he averaged 11.2 yards per pass attempt.

It's not opinion. I posted all 22 footage of him in multiple threads.

He excelled on 1/3 field throws and struggled on everything else. 

He has great fundamentals which helps him overcome his limitations. His ceiling is reached and won't get better.

He is not worth the risk.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Catsfan69 said:

It's not opinion. I posted all 22 footage of him in multiple threads.

He excelled on 1/3 field throws and struggled on everything else. 

He has great fundamentals which helps him overcome his limitations. His ceiling is reached and won't get better.

He is not worth the risk.

All qbs have weaknesses.  Can you answer my questions?  If he has this much concern, how did he have so much success? I provided the numbers.  Can you explain it?

[mickeye76]

If Mac is the option we need to trade down and draft a oline.  Honestly Jones is a solid prospect.  People are hating on him, but he had a lights out season.  I'd take Jones over Lance.  It's all to do with scheme for and floor vs ceiling.  Yeah, Lance has a higher ceiling but his floor is bust basement.  Jones on the other hand seems serviceable and think Brady and Rhule could make him Teddy but with a little more youth and daring.  

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, mickeye76 said:

If Mac is the option we need to trade down and draft a oline.  Honestly Jones is a solid prospect.  People are hating on him, but he had a lights out season.  I'd take Jones over Lance.  It's all to do with scheme for and floor vs ceiling.  Yeah, Lance has a higher ceiling but his floor is bust basement.  Jones on the other hand seems serviceable and think Brady and Rhule could make him Teddy but with a little more youth and daring.  

I am not sold on Jones, but I am not sold on any of them.  Most qbs will tell you, success is dependent upon how quickly you can process--if you have the tools. 

And people criticize me about comparing Jones to Brady for the purpose of demonstrating the success of a non-mobile QB.  I think it is not a fair comparison because Jones is better.

Why do I say that?  Compare Jones' senior year of college to Brady's senior year of college.

They want to compare Jones in college to the Brady we know now.  That is not fair to Jones.

[MHS831]

Good debate--why I love the next 7 weeks.  But don't assume Jones sucks because his numbers will dispute your opinion.  He wins and he produces. 

[Catsfan69]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

All qbs have weaknesses.  Can you answer my questions?  If he has this much concern, how did he have so much success? I provided the numbers.  Can you explain it?

I can give you lots of reasons. 

His receivers are wide ass open.

Great offensive architecture at Alabama provides great route concepts. 

Alabama has the luxury of calling plays that fit his strength. 

Stats wise like teddy he had tons of completions at the line of scrimmage or behind.

Like Teddy he got lots of yac.

God I'll post a video for you hold on.

You watch. Especially the checkdown. The over is NFL open 46 is beat but he checked down like Teddy.

 

[Catsfan69]

 Now compare him to say even Mond

 

 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

I can give you lots of reasons. 

His receivers are wide ass open.

Great offensive architecture at Alabama provides great route concepts. 

Alabama has the luxury of calling plays that fit his strength. 

Stats wise like teddy he had tons of completions at the line of scrimmage or behind.

Like Teddy he got lots of yac.

God I'll post a video for you hold on.

You watch. Especially the checkdown. The over is NFL open 46 is beat but he checked down like Teddy.

 

these are still opinions. Do you think general, unsupported statements prove your point? Did Trevor have wide open WRs?  His numbers were not as good.  Do you think your list applies only to Alabama players or could all programs try to do those things?

And some of the statements are simply not true.  Stats like Teddy behind the LOS--etc.  His average pass attempt was 11.2 yards.  Come on, man.  Shoot straight.

I can provide a video that praises Jones--so I am still unconvinced.  You may be right, but I wanted some concrete evidence to support your position.  Did not get anything but hyperbole and cherry-picked video.  He did not have any unfair advantages--he did not have a super team and everyone else had sand lot rejects---he won and did so impressively.  77.4% at an 11.2 yards per attempt, 350 yards per game and 42 TDs vs 4 Ints.  Not many people have come close to that.

Edited March 11, 2021 by MHS831