June Jones jumps on the Mac Jones train

[panthers55]

32 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Athleticism is down on your list of QB attributes... Not most of the people watching football the last 10 years...

And athleticism has unfortunately been overhyped and things like accuracy and speed  of processing information has been undervalued.  When if you don't have the last 2, the amount of athleticism is only great if you want to convert to a wide receiver or tight end. 

[Jon Snow]

6 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And athleticism has unfortunately been overhyped and things like accuracy and speed  of processing information has been undervalued.  When if you don't have the last 2, the amount of athleticism is only great if you want to convert to a wide receiver or tight end. 

I think most of these guys on here knocking the possibility of drafting Jones is because they are looking for the next Newton.  I've got news for those folks, Cam was/is a one off.  You will not find someone with his ability that easily if ever.  

It's just fans projecting their hopes on any QB that might be remotely as talented as he WAS.  It's a pipedream.

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, panthers55 said:

He isn't polarizing like Lance or some other prospect. He is a proven winner who did everything asked of him. I don't think he has many physical limitations given that athleticism is down the list of necessary attributes for a QB.  There are many guys who have been successful who weren't physical specimens. Plus I think that Jones is likely working in these issues as we speak. And these supposed issues are not as great as some would suggest. For example he throws a good consistent deep ball and can make all the throws.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/college/alabama/.amp/bamacentral/deep-ball-specialist-mac-jones-perfecting-art-of-the-long-touchdown-blackwell

Proven winners haven't always fared well in the NFL. That is the one thing that isn't a 1:1 translation because the college game is so tilted towards power programs and power conferences.

Athleticism would be less of an issue if Jones had elite arm talent, but he doesn't. That's the main rub. Not a good athlete AND lacking in arm ability makes it tough. He really has to be very, very elite in everything else and I don't personally see that.

[panthers55]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Proven winners haven't always fared well in the NFL. That is the one thing that isn't a 1:1 translation because the college game is so tilted towards power programs and power conferences.

Athleticism would be less of an issue if Jones had elite arm talent, but he doesn't. That's the main rub. Not a good athlete AND lacking in arm ability makes it tough. He really has to be very, very elite in everything else and I don't personally see that.

Agree that he isn't that athletic but arm strength is not that big of deal. His deep ball for example is one of his best attributes. His arm is in par with many QBs currently playing in this league and that is something that is likely to improve with an NFL conditioning program. On the other hand accuracy and quick decisionmaking don't necessary improve 

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Agree that he isn't that athletic but arm strength is not that big of deal. His deep ball for example is one of his best attributes. His arm is in par with many QBs currently playing in this league and that is something that is likely to improve with an NFL conditioning program. On the other hand accuracy and quick decisionmaking don't necessary improve 

Arm strength is a big deal in the NFL because it means you will be a lot more reliant on being in a system that is suited to shorter throws or having big playmakers. Sean Payton would probably do well with him, Josh McDaniels, etc. He isn't able to make all the NFL throws, however. I would say he is a below average arm strength for the NFL from what I have seen. He does have some nice touch and he seems to process the routes well but, TBH, the offense at Alabama is designed to get the ball into the big time playmakers hands and let them do their thing. 

Accuracy and decision making CAN improve at the NFL level but a lot of that just depends on the guy. Typically an accurate college passer(which all of the top 4 QB's are very accurate college passers, as is Jones) bodes well for accuracy in the NFL. But, then you have a guy like Josh Allen that has a much higher NFL completion percentage than he had in college football. So it isn't a rule that is the case and outliers do exist. Conversely, someone like Sam Darnold was a very accurate college passer but has been a rather inaccurate NFL passer.

[WOW!!]

6 hours ago, panthers55 said:

And athleticism has unfortunately been overhyped and things like accuracy and speed  of processing information has been undervalued.  When if you don't have the last 2, the amount of athleticism is only great if you want to convert to a wide receiver or tight end. 

I thought we were pass the Accuracy and speed of processing thing after watching Cam get a change in scheme and surrounding talent.. And all of a sudden a 60% comp rate goes into  65 to 68 range... You can draft and scheme Accuracy and processing improves with experience... Athletic ability and arm strength is god giving and isn't something you can acquire... Why draft a QB who doesn't have those abilities and pigeon hole your team into playing a certain way and always praying for perfect situation so he can succeed...

Example..

Smitty gets hurt and the season is over for Jake..

Cam loses KB and we win with crap...

[WOW!!]

6 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

I think most of these guys on here knocking the possibility of drafting Jones is because they are looking for the next Newton.  I've got news for those folks, Cam was/is a one off.  You will not find someone with his ability that easily if ever.  

It's just fans projecting their hopes on any QB that might be remotely as talented as he WAS.  It's a pipedream.

Doesn't have to be Cam. I'll take a Joe Burrow level athlete .. Be able to consistently beat a DT to the edge or have a big arm who can throw from different angles to avoid pressure... But Atleast have 1 of the god giving abilities.. Mobility or a big talented arm..  Hopefully your top 10 pick should have both... But not having either and living off "intangibles" usually add up to a career backup...

[WOW!!]

14 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

 

And yes I will admit it Cam has spoiled me as a fan.. Until he was hurt... I enjoyed going into every season knowing we had a top 10 QB who gave us a chance to win no matter what the situation around him was...

Yes it was amazing to go into a season with a guy who could carry the team if he had to... 

All the years of hoping we had a good enough team and being unrealistic about not having injuries thru out the season.. Knowing our QB couldn't succeed without the right surrounding cast and situation was Wearing on me as a fan...

I'd rather swing for the higher ceiling instead of going back to that.  

[panthers55]

20 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Arm strength is a big deal in the NFL because it means you will be a lot more reliant on being in a system that is suited to shorter throws or having big playmakers. Sean Payton would probably do well with him, Josh McDaniels, etc. He isn't able to make all the NFL throws, however. I would say he is a below average arm strength for the NFL from what I have seen. He does have some nice touch and he seems to process the routes well but, TBH, the offense at Alabama is designed to get the ball into the big time playmakers hands and let them do their thing. 

Accuracy and decision making CAN improve at the NFL level but a lot of that just depends on the guy. Typically an accurate college passer(which all of the top 4 QB's are very accurate college passers, as is Jones) bodes well for accuracy in the NFL. But, then you have a guy like Josh Allen that has a much higher NFL completion percentage than he had in college football. So it isn't a rule that is the case and outliers do exist. Conversely, someone like Sam Darnold was a very accurate college passer but has been a rather inaccurate NFL passer.

I guess you missed where folks said he has a good deep ball and can throw it 40 yards in the air and hit receivers in stride.

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/bamacentral/deep-ball-specialist-mac-jones-perfecting-art-of-the-long-touchdown-blackwell

 

https://nflmocks.com/2021/02/01/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-mac-jones/

 

The knock is average not below average but average arm strength but is great throwing the deep ball. Maybe it is me but it seems a few months with the weights can improve your arm strength much quicker than changing your fundamentals to be more accurate or to show better football awareness.

[WOW!!]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

I guess you missed where folks said he has a good deep ball and can throw it 40 yards in the air and hit receivers in stride.

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/bamacentral/deep-ball-specialist-mac-jones-perfecting-art-of-the-long-touchdown-blackwell

 

https://nflmocks.com/2021/02/01/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-mac-jones/

 

The knock is average not below average but average arm strength but is great throwing the deep ball. Maybe it is me but it seems a few months with the weights can improve your arm strength much quicker than changing your fundamentals to be more accurate or to show better football awareness.

No it can't or Matt Ryan would be Matt Stafford.. Arm strength and throwing power is god giving not man made... You could be in the gym for 10 years and still not throw a 90 mile per hour fastball..

The Accuracy thing you keep acting like is something impossible to develop without changing fundamental or throwing motion has been proven wrong to many times now by just getting more sure handed players and easier passes in your scheme..

 

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

Mac Jones to the Patriots.... 

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, WOW!! said:

No it can't or Matt Ryan would be Matt Stafford.. Arm strength and throwing power is god giving not man made... You could be in the gym for 10 years and still not throw a 90 mile per hour fastball..

The Accuracy thing you keep acting like is something impossible to develop without changing fundamental or throwing motion has been proven wrong to many times now by just getting more sure handed players and easier passes in your scheme..

 

That isn't true at all. If you throw an 85 mph fastball as a college player, you think you can't improve on that based on better technique and more muscle and get in the 90s.

You think guys don't train for the combine and improve their 40 time ?

And you really think it is easier to change your fundamentals and consistency which is why most QBs are inaccurate easier than hitting the gym and adding 15 lbs of muscle. Or do you think arm strength isn't about how much muscle you have?? Strength isn't god given, it is developed by hard work over time.  Look at Smitty when he came in the league and then in 2005. You think he didn't get stronger. Height might be God given but strength isn't.

Edited March 16, 2021 by panthers55

[WOW!!]

11 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

That isn't true at all. If you throw an 85 mph fastball as a college player, you think you can't improve on that based on better technique and more muscle and get in the 90s.

You think guys don't train for the combine and improve their 40 time ?

And you really think it is easier to change your fundamentals and consistency which is why most QBs are inaccurate easier than hitting the gym and adding 15 lbs of muscle. Or do you think arm strength isn't about how much muscle you have?? Strength isn't god given, it is developed by hard work over time.  Look at Smitty when he came in the league and then in 2005. You think he didn't get stronger. Height might be God given but strength isn't.

55 I don't know what planet you're on right now but you can't be serious right?? 

You're way to old to not know the difference in physical strength and muscle and the arm strength talked about in throwing a football or baseball (flexibility, snap, wrist tension) stuff that is god giving... The Rock 6'5 280lb is a big dude but he ain't throwing a ball with the same velocity or  as far as  6'1 Russell Wilson...

Example.. Greg Maddox work ethic is unquestionably..  But he couldn't develop a consistent 90 per hour fastball.. While Cece Sabathia, David Wells and Barthola Colon rarely look at a gym and could hit 90+ effortlessly..

Do you really think if Chad Peingthon, Matt Linerd, Or the rest of a long list of Successful college QB with avg. Arm strength could just workout and increase their arm strength they wouldn't??  WIth millions of dollars and ample opportunities on the line.. really??

And again this inaccurate thing you're hoping on has been debunked right in front of your face... 

Josh Allen in 1 season up his Accuracy by 6 to 8 points.. Just by scheme change and adding better talent around him... This Accuracy thing you think is a talent that can't be fixed quickly is being fixed quickly every year. .

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I guess you missed where folks said he has a good deep ball and can throw it 40 yards in the air and hit receivers in stride.

https://www.si.com/college/alabama/bamacentral/deep-ball-specialist-mac-jones-perfecting-art-of-the-long-touchdown-blackwell

 

https://nflmocks.com/2021/02/01/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-mac-jones/

 

The knock is average not below average but average arm strength but is great throwing the deep ball. Maybe it is me but it seems a few months with the weights can improve your arm strength much quicker than changing your fundamentals to be more accurate or to show better football awareness.

Eh, average or below average is debatable. I have certainly seen a few label his arm strength as below average. By below average, I don't think anyone is saying he has "bad" arm strength. Simply less than the average NFL QB.

Arm strength is something that doesn't really seem to go up after a certain point, although you can improve it. It's a lot easier to improve accuracy because that is typically a mechanical issue rather than a natural ability. 

He has good anticipation and touch on his deep throws but he definitely isn't out there throwing lasers.