Be the judge of the film

[MHS831]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We've reached the point of desperation. We see a Watson trade is increasingly unlikely to work out for us. We see there's more and more smoke that all of the "big four" QB prospects may well be gone by #8. So now we're grasping at straws trying to convince ourselves that a Mac Jones or Mitch Trubisky could actually be the answer.

Fug.

What I am hoping for is this--we have all been at the car lot for a while and we started with the $100,000 sports cars, then we started looking at the $60,000 "more practical" crossovers, and now we are kicking the tires of the Subaru Outbacks.  While the Outback may be the best vehicle for our needs, we really wanted that sports car with the sun roof that can go 0-60 in 3 seconds. 

I have heard that Jones is not good, but I have not seen it. His stats do not indicate it.  If we take Jones, we better surround him with a wall of stud OL and get him a TE.  The sports car would have been great but in bad weather and slippery surfaces, the Outback outperforms.  When I think that the crossover has heated seats and steers for you, I realized that the $30,000 Outback saves us $30,000 so we can use that money for insurance and other luxuries (OL and WRs and a TE). 

So Jones does not have the highlight reel--does he have the things that people do not notice on those films--progression speed and decision making, a quick release, leadership?  I would not sell him short.   And if you are still kicking the tires in the sports car and crossover sections of this car dealership, maybe the sensible choice is not in the showroom.

I am hoping that is what is going on.  Jones with Reed at G and a guy who until recently held aloft a cardboard sign at an intersection at LT is going to fail. 

[Varking]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

What I am hoping for is this--we have all been at the car lot for a while and we started with the $100,000 sports cars, then we started looking at the $60,000 "more practical" crossovers, and now we are kicking the tires of the Subaru Outbacks.  While the Outback may be the best vehicle for our needs, we really wanted that sports car with the sun roof that can go 0-60 in 3 seconds. 

I have heard that Jones is not good, but I have not seen it. His stats do not indicate it.  If we take Jones, we better surround him with a wall of stud OL and get him a TE.  The sports car would have been great but in bad weather and slippery surfaces, the Outback outperforms.  When I think that the crossover has heated seats and steers for you, I realized that the $30,000 Outback saves us $30,000 so we can use that money for insurance and other luxuries (OL and WRs and a TE). 

So Jones does not have the highlight reel--does he have the things that people do not notice on those films--progression speed and decision making, a quick release, leadership?  I would not sell him short.   And if you are still kicking the tires in the sports car and crossover sections of this car dealership, maybe the sensible choice is not in the showroom.

I am hoping that is what is going on.  Jones with Reed at G and a guy who until recently held aloft a cardboard sign at an intersection at LT is going to fail. 

Does he have progressions speed? He was the worst QB in this batch after his first read. And I believe recently somebody posted data showing he was one of the lower QBs on accuracy of passes five yards plus. Trey Lance was the worst on that category. 

[Pup McBarky]

8 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Thats why I am still pissed at Hurndog for not taking a LT in last years draft.  I mean damn we had the pick of the litter with 3 incredible prospects and we go DT.  It makes no sense giving what we knew at the time.  Sure brown is good but he isnt going to be more valuable than Wirfs willis or Becton over the course of their career.  Wouldnt it be fuging peaches and cream going into this draft knowing we had both of our tackle spots solidified? 

I'm torn about that. Knowing what this year's IDL class looks like, I'm not mad about it. You also need a stout DL to get to the SB. I get what you're saying and it would be awesome to have both OTs locked up for a few years. Hopefully, Rhule & co. can rectify that this year. Pretty good LT class and we'll have a shot at one of 'em.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, Pup McBarky said:

I'm torn about that. Knowing what this year's IDL class looks like, I'm not mad about it. You also need a stout DL to get to the SB. I get what you're saying and it would be awesome to have both OTs locked up for a few years. Hopefully, Rhule & co. can rectify that this year. Pretty good LT class and we'll have a shot at one of 'em.

Its deeper but not as top heavy and we are going to be sifting through the 2nd tier whereas last year we had our choice.  fug hurney.  No way anyone can convince me otherwise. 

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Thats why I am still pissed at Hurndog for not taking a LT in last years draft.  I mean damn we had the pick of the litter with 3 incredible prospects and we go DT.  It makes no sense giving what we knew at the time.  Sure brown is good but he isnt going to be more valuable than Wirfs willis or Becton over the course of their career.  Wouldnt it be fuging peaches and cream going into this draft knowing we had both of our tackle spots solidified? 

Technically, he took one the year before.

It just happened to be a sh-tty one in the second round.

[LinvilleGorge]

8 hours ago, PandaMan said:

The Jones love has gotten insane.  There’s so much desperation for a QB on here that people think this is a good pick?  We want to dump Teddy due to physical limitations and people are saying we’ll draft Mac fuging Jones at 8?  Doesn’t make any sense.  

I don’t think the coaches want Jones.  They’re going big or going home, at least I hope so.  Mac Jones may end up being okay but he’s like a Chad Pennington type to me.  I want a playmaker.

100% agreed

[frankw]

Many here very much wanted the Panthers to draft Will Grier while later shunning Justin Herbert. 

That should tell you what you need to know about the evaluation skills of most armchair gm's.

[LinvilleGorge]

58 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Dude what the hell are you talking about?  If anything its becoming way more likely we will have a choice of 2 of the top 4 at pick 8 if ATL goes defense instead of qb which I think will happen.  If the Jets stay with Darnold then things get all kinds of interesting.

 

So stay at 8 and see how the draft goes but there is no way in hell all 4 are going in the first 7 picks.  0% chance.

You can make a case for a QB for most of the teams above us and plenty could potentially be interested in trading up. It wouldn't be at all shocking if all four are gone by #7. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it's a very real possibility.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, musicman said:

While I agree he's a late 1st rounded and I would take him easily with our 2nd pick, but he won't be there. But as you've stated him physical limitations is describing Tom Brady and look how he turned out, and that's what some people see (right or wrong). Jones just might have the smarts and pocket awareness and accuracy to succeed in the NFL. 

If we can't get Watson or Fields or Wilson. I would take Wilson or Lance but not at 8. I would take LT Slater at 8 and then try to move up with my 2nd round pick if their either are available to around 18 to 20 in the 1st. 

Look at the other side of the "Tom Brady" coin. There's a reason why he went in the 6th round. Almost all of the other guys in the "Tom Brady as a draft prospect" category got their cup of coffee in the NFL and they've been working as an accountant ever since. Brady is a very, VERY unique case that's so far outside of the norm that he's almost not even worth talking about in terms of other prospects. If you think you can find another Brady then you might as well start inviting bag boys to camp in search of the next Kurt Warner.

If we're talking about Mac Jones as a 6th rounder then hell yeah, sign me up for that. But that's not the conversation we're having.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

I mean, honestly?  If it came down to Trubisky or Jones, I'd rather have Trubisky.  Dude does have an arm at least.  I think Trubisky has the potential to be another Ryan Tannehill.  If you look at their career trajectories, they look pretty similar.  I know not everyone loves Tannehill, but that dude is actually legit.  He's not HoF caliber, but you can will a Super Bowl with him.  Bear in mind, most of Tannehill's career was spent in the same division as the Patriots.

I've seen a lot of folks knock Trubisky around here . . . but there's a guy there who is 25-13 since his rookie season.  Throws twice as many TD's as INT's and completes 64% of his passes.  Stop looking at his train wreck of a team and look at him.  He definitely needs someone to help him smooth out his INT rate.  He's all over the board with it, but there's a player there.

Honestly, I agree.

I'd rather have Trubisky as a FA and a LT or shutdown CB prospect at #8 than Mac Jones as a 1st rounder. 100%.

[LinvilleGorge]

45 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

What I am hoping for is this--we have all been at the car lot for a while and we started with the $100,000 sports cars, then we started looking at the $60,000 "more practical" crossovers, and now we are kicking the tires of the Subaru Outbacks.  While the Outback may be the best vehicle for our needs, we really wanted that sports car with the sun roof that can go 0-60 in 3 seconds. 

I have heard that Jones is not good, but I have not seen it. His stats do not indicate it.  If we take Jones, we better surround him with a wall of stud OL and get him a TE.  The sports car would have been great but in bad weather and slippery surfaces, the Outback outperforms.  When I think that the crossover has heated seats and steers for you, I realized that the $30,000 Outback saves us $30,000 so we can use that money for insurance and other luxuries (OL and WRs and a TE). 

So Jones does not have the highlight reel--does he have the things that people do not notice on those films--progression speed and decision making, a quick release, leadership?  I would not sell him short.   And if you are still kicking the tires in the sports car and crossover sections of this car dealership, maybe the sensible choice is not in the showroom.

I am hoping that is what is going on.  Jones with Reed at G and a guy who until recently held aloft a cardboard sign at an intersection at LT is going to fail. 

Unfortunately, I had an Outback as a company vehicle for a few years. It's the perfect comp for Mac Jones. A lot of people told you it's good and you'll love it. It looks fine. Not great, fine. Acceleration is anemic. It has a throttle delay that is straight up dangerous when pulling out into traffic. If you look at it the wrong way it scratches and dents. The seat makes your lower back feel like you've been taking blindside hits from Aaron Donald all week.

You very quickly realize you've been had. Those people who told you that you were gonna love it were wrong but that piece of poo is still sitting in your driveway ready to torment you again tomorrow.

[d-dave]

I've started watching whatever "experts" I can find on QBs (youtube university FTW!) so I can be prepared for the good and bad of what's next.

Jones is not athletic in the sense of a Trey Lance or Justin Fields, nor is he close to Trevor or Wilson.  He's got major dad bod.  Does that indicate future success?  No.  Was Jake Delhomme ever an underwear model?  No (hopefully not!)???

Jones does look like a guy who can play in structure.  He looks like he has some decent pocket mobility.  He can be accurate.  

But when structure breaks down, he's not going to make a defense pay with his leg.  While he's made good throws, how often is there the pressure of having to make THE throw to win a game?  Not just a game, but THE game that gets you into the playoffs?  That's a BIG question for me.

If the QB you need isn't there, don't settle.  We need a LT, and there are some good ones there.  There are some good CBs.  Heck, we could draft Micah Parsons for LB support.  You're always looking for a franchise QB...

[mrcompletely11]

32 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You can make a case for a QB for most of the teams above us and plenty could potentially be interested in trading up. It wouldn't be at all shocking if all four are gone by #7. I'm not saying it WILL happen, but it's a very real possibility.

Except its not dude, its really not.  The teams that might trade up are in a win now mode and not going to sit on a project which everyone says Fields and Lance are.  Philly isnt drafting a qb and the lions have goff for 2 more years.  The wild card is ATL but I think they run this out with Ryan and Co and go corner.  Like I said the chances are four are gone in 7 picks (which has never happened before ) is 0.0.

Edited March 10, 2021 by mrcompletely11

[Ricky Spanish]

1 hour ago, bigdog10 said:

This thread reads very similar to the thread we had on here about Justin Herbert last year. So many posters complaining about his arm strength and mobility, yet he comes out and sets all kind of rookie QB records. 
 

Not necessarily comparing Jones and Herbert, it’s just funny seeing the huddle experts having a conniption over the thought process of the panthers drafting a more conventional pocket passer. 

To be fair, we didn't have one of those for close to a decade and when we did, he was underwhelming.