Richard Sherman thinks Mac Jones criticized unfairly

[PootieNunu]

15 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Just as I'm not really Mac Jones or bust. 

I just feel the distrust and hate he receives, despite not just the pro scouts, but others all around the league talking him up. 

You're right, he can bust. So can every QB drafted before him. 

Those same guys talked up Blaine Gabbert and some even thought he should have been our pick over Newton. Mac Jones is physically limited in mobility and arm strength, no way he should be a first rounder.

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Name a school known for producing QBs lately?  Louisville?  NC State?  Oklahoma?  Florida State?  It is really hard to find one. I would have said the same about Herbert last year (Oregon--been a few years since Fouts played). 

 

 

lately? I think it is OU, then Clemson IMO.  They will likely straight up own the most starting QBs in the NFL this upcoming season.    Oregon, NC State, etc in the conversation but with qualifiers like played at other schools, semi-busted, etc. 

 

[pantherclaw]

15 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Those same guys talked up Blaine Gabbert and some even thought he should have been our pick over Newton. Mac Jones is physically limited in mobility and arm strength, no way he should be a first rounder.

Yet he could end up being the biggest winner out of this draft. 

That is the problem with the blinders a lot of y'all are wearing. 

[MHS831]

6 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Those same guys talked up Blaine Gabbert and some even thought he should have been our pick over Newton. Mac Jones is physically limited in mobility and arm strength, no way he should be a first rounder.

I have read the same thing--Bama's schedule (Notre Dame, Ohio State, SEC, etc).  His arm has been characterized as "average" and he cannot run. 

What does he do better than the others?  What does Jones do better than Fields?  Lawrence?  Wilson?

He is very smart, and progresses through his reads quickly.  He has a quick release.   He is accurate.  If his arm strength and mobility were problems, would they not only have been a problem in college?

Here is a statistic that suggests how large the difference is:

Mac Jones ball out 38th fastest
Justin Fields ball out 185th fastest

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/mac-jones-justin-fields-who-has-advantage-2021/

So how does arm strength impact efficiency?  Why is Fields' release so much slower?  So if Jones can make all the throws, but he can anticipate sooner and release the ball quicker, is Arm strength really a factor you want to use to disqualify him? 

That leaves mobility.  Fields is a much better runner.

Fields has the long term upside advantage, and for that reason I would take him over Jones.  But to say that Jones does not belong in round 1 because he has an average arm-I ask you this, "Does he make all the throws?" A: Yes.  And he reads the coverage and delivers the ball quicker than most other QBs.

 

 

 

[MHS831]

26 minutes ago, CRA said:

lately? I think it is OU, then Clemson IMO.  They will likely straight up own the most starting QBs in the NFL this upcoming season.    Oregon, NC State, etc in the conversation but with qualifiers like played at other schools, semi-busted, etc. 

 

Clemson has 1 (soon to be 2) starting qb--this list makes it easier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_quarterbacks_in_the_National_Football_League

[LinvilleGorge]

17 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Yet he could end up being the biggest winner out of this draft. 

That is the problem with the blinders a lot of y'all are wearing. 

Sure, he could be. So could anyone else who isn't going to be one of the top 3-4 guys drafted at his position. No one here is trashing Jones that I'm seeing. Most of us just want no part of him where we're drafting in the 1st round. Mac Jones at #8 is crazy talk.

[PootieNunu]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I have read the same thing--Bama's schedule (Notre Dame, Ohio State, SEC, etc).  His arm has been characterized as "average" and he cannot run. 

What does he do better than the others?  What does Jones do better than Fields?  Lawrence?  Wilson?

He is very smart, and progresses through his reads quickly.  He has a quick release.   He is accurate.  If his arm strength and mobility were problems, would they not only have been a problem in college?

Here is a statistic that suggests how large the difference is:

Mac Jones ball out 38th fastest
Justin Fields ball out 185th fastest

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/mac-jones-justin-fields-who-has-advantage-2021/

So how does arm strength impact efficiency?  Why is Fields' release so much slower?  So if Jones can make all the throws, but he can anticipate sooner and release the ball quicker, is Arm strength really a factor you want to use to disqualify him? 

That leaves mobility.  Fields is a much better runner.

Fields has the long term upside advantage, and for that reason I would take him over Jones.  But to say that Jones does not belong in round 1 because he has an average arm-I ask you this, "Does he make all the throws?" A: Yes.  And he reads the coverage and delivers the ball quicker than most other QBs.

 

 

 

We already have the same type of QB in Teddy. 

Of Jones' 424 attempts this season, 145 of them were thrown to pass-catchers at or behind the line of scrimmage, good for a rate of 34.1%. That's high. Really high. 

Of Jones' 4,500 passing yards, more than half (53.5%) was via yards after the catch.

Edited March 8, 2021 by PootieNunu

[TriggaPlease89]

5 hours ago, BrianS said:

Richard Sherman . . . has exactly what credentials to make that sort of assertion?  Are we talking Richard Sherman the former Seahawks cornerback or is there a Richard Sherman who actually has some knowledge of scouting?  Seems like a "who cares" moment to me.

 

He has more credentials than you for sure. 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

Clemson has 1 (soon to be 2) starting qb--this list makes it easier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_starting_quarterbacks_in_the_National_Football_League

yeah I think when looking at the upcoming season, I'd have Clemson #2.  Watson and Trevor will both be super hyped starters.    OU the top spot.  NC State's guys are all backups, out of the league, or played their final college season elsewhere. 

[countryboi]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Here, I want to dissect the common perceptions about Jones and this post sets me up nicely--not attacking you, countryboi, just using the post to make some counter points.  You may be right, but I would like to know the facts/stats that told you this---what was it you saw or read that drew you to this conclusion?

Would you have called Tom Brady "generationally talented" as a Senior at Michigan? 

Jones broke the NCAA passing completion percentage record by completing 77.4% of his passes.

In the Championship game, Jones completed 36 of 45 passes for 464 yards and five touchdowns during Alabama’s 52-24 victory over Ohio State in Monday’s  In doing so, he set national championship game records in passing yards and competitions.

Tom Brady's senior year at Michigan (with Jones' comparisons in parentheses):  16 TDs (42), 6 Interceptions (4), completion percentage 61.0% (77.4), and 2217 total yards (4500) with 7.5 yards per attempt (11.2). 

So if you call Brady a "generational talent", then you would not have done so when he was in college, based on the comparisons to Jones above.  If he was not one in college but became one, then you would have to admit that Jones was about twice as effective in college as a player you describe to be a generational talent in the NFL, and you should be able to provide us with the reasons Jones as a college senior was more productive than the GOAT was in college, yet Jones is not a generational talent and the underachieving Brady is.

Are you basing your opinion about Jones solely on the fact that he lacks mobility?  Rhule said that Jones is very smart and most scouts drool over his ability to effectively and quickly go through progressions.  Is running more important than his intelligence and accuracy?

Just curious how one might defend the supposition that Jones is not going to be a generational talent when the GOAT was not a generational talent in college by comparison, and he just won a ring a few weeks ago--his seventh. 

Not trying to be a tool, but I am really interested in knowing what it is you all see that I cannot.

your argument is flawed, Tom Brady is an anomaly. you can not base future QBs on Brady because it is almost impossible to draft even a starting level QB past the 4th. this argument would work better with a another first rounder even the the success rates are trash over half of them dont even get a second contract. if you like Mac Jones by all means but Im not convinced

[Catsfan69]

15 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I have read the same thing--Bama's schedule (Notre Dame, Ohio State, SEC, etc).  His arm has been characterized as "average" and he cannot run. 

What does he do better than the others?  What does Jones do better than Fields?  Lawrence?  Wilson?

He is very smart, and progresses through his reads quickly.  He has a quick release.   He is accurate.  If his arm strength and mobility were problems, would they not only have been a problem in college?

Here is a statistic that suggests how large the difference is:

Mac Jones ball out 38th fastest
Justin Fields ball out 185th fastest

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/mac-jones-justin-fields-who-has-advantage-2021/

So how does arm strength impact efficiency?  Why is Fields' release so much slower?  So if Jones can make all the throws, but he can anticipate sooner and release the ball quicker, is Arm strength really a factor you want to use to disqualify him? 

That leaves mobility.  Fields is a much better runner.

Fields has the long term upside advantage, and for that reason I would take him over Jones.  But to say that Jones does not belong in round 1 because he has an average arm-I ask you this, "Does he make all the throws?" A: Yes.  And he reads the coverage and delivers the ball quicker than most other QBs.

 

 

 

He can get the ball out because his receivers win immediately in their route.

 

His receivers are 10yds open most of the time. 

 

That won't happen in the NFL. 

[TheProcess]

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah I think when looking at the upcoming season, I'd have Clemson #2.  Watson and Trevor will both be super hyped starters.    OU the top spot.  NC State's guys are all backups, out of the league, or played their final college season elsewhere. 

List is a bit skewed as it names starters for their last games. Jared Goff was hurt for the playoff game. Goff went to California like Aaron Rodgers. If Goff can bounce back to playing well, California would be there too.

[Catsfan69]

He seems like slightly better than teddy but not impressive at all. 

 

[Martin]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

I have read the same thing--Bama's schedule (Notre Dame, Ohio State, SEC, etc).  His arm has been characterized as "average" and he cannot run. 

What does he do better than the others?  What does Jones do better than Fields?  Lawrence?  Wilson?

He is very smart, and progresses through his reads quickly.  He has a quick release.   He is accurate.  If his arm strength and mobility were problems, would they not only have been a problem in college?

Here is a statistic that suggests how large the difference is:

Mac Jones ball out 38th fastest
Justin Fields ball out 185th fastest

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/mac-jones-justin-fields-who-has-advantage-2021/

So how does arm strength impact efficiency?  Why is Fields' release so much slower?  So if Jones can make all the throws, but he can anticipate sooner and release the ball quicker, is Arm strength really a factor you want to use to disqualify him? 

That leaves mobility.  Fields is a much better runner.

Fields has the long term upside advantage, and for that reason I would take him over Jones.  But to say that Jones does not belong in round 1 because he has an average arm-I ask you this, "Does he make all the throws?" A: Yes.  And he reads the coverage and delivers the ball quicker than most other QBs.

 

 

 

He seems to be great at his pre snap reads. He already knows where to go with the ball. The question is what he will do without an obvious pre snap option like he is used to on every play with Bama? He might be great for all I know, but there just seem to be a really small room for error without that super obvious pre snap read.

It feels like he need a great supporting cast (spectacular o-line etc.) to work. 
Not a fan, but I’ll obviously root for him if we pick him. But at 8 I want a star player, not an “just ok” QB.