Brandt needs to give more on QB prospects

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Other than his running, What? 

His arm is every bit as strong as Burrows', he is every bit as accurate as Burrow, he is able to put plenty of zip on the ball when he needs to, he throws with incredible anticipation and his ball placement is outstanding - often hitting his receivers perfectly in stride, allowing them to maximize RAC, he processes information extremely fast, he is able to identify defenses and understands who his hot reads are, he has shown he can manipulate the defense with both his eyes and body movements, he has a quick release, he maneuvers inside the pocket extremely well, and he rarely makes a wrong decision.

To be honest, his only legitimate negative is his athleticism and running ability.  So, other than that, there's really nothing Burrow has over Jones.   

Everyone is all enamored with the Patrick Mahomes' of the world, the QB's that are good passers, but also exceptional runners.  But as we just learned this past year, that is not necessary in todays NFL to win a Super Bowl.  A high level pocket QB can still win now, despite the myth that you need a QB that excels in off script playmaking. 

Stop. His arm is absolutely not as strong as Burrow's and "running" also means throwing on the move - something Burrow does very well and Jones doesn't.

Jones has shown he can throw to wide open elite targets who are head and shoulders better than the opposing defenders behind an elite OL that is also head and shoulders better than the opposing defenders. Good luck replicating that at the NFL level.

When plays broke down at LSU, Burrow still made positive things happen. If the first read wasn't wide open at Alabama (a true rarity) the play was generally a dud.

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, mav1234 said:

Jones doesn't really seem to have great arm strength... he could work in our offense but many of the comments we've heard is a desire to have a QB that can make all the throws...

His arm strength is actually decent.  he doesn't have a cannon, but it is strong enough to make all of the throws. His deep ball accuracy is among the best, if not THE best, of any QB in this draft.  And while some like to say it was because of the talent and scheme he played with, look at his ball placement on these deep passes.  Very rarely does his receiver have to even slow a step for the ball...it usually gets there fast, and is placed perfectly where the ball drops right in front of them, allowing for YAC. 

If he was throwing to wide open receivers that had to wait on the ball to get to them, then I would agree that arm strength is an issue.  But that's not the case at all.  His receivers rarely have to wait on the ball, no matter what level he is throwing to.  His balls also don't float, which is why his interception numbers are so low.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Woodie said:

His arm strength is actually decent.  he doesn't have a cannon, but it is strong enough to make all of the throws. His deep ball accuracy is among the best, if not THE best, of any QB in this draft.  And while some like to say it was because of the talent and scheme he played with, look at his ball placement on these deep passes.  Very rarely does his receiver have to even slow a step for the ball...it usually gets there fast, and is placed perfectly where the ball drops right in front of them, allowing for YAC. 

If he was throwing to wide open receivers that had to wait on the ball to get to them, then I would agree that arm strength is an issue.  But that's not the case at all.  His receivers rarely have to wait on the ball, no matter what level he is throwing to.  His balls also don't float, which is why his interception numbers are so low.

 

His arm is average for a P5 D1 QB. It's definitely below average at the NFL level. Don't get triggered, but it's probably on par with Teddy's 

[Woodie]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Stop. His a is absolutely not as strong as Burrow's and "running" also means throwing on the move - something Burrow does very well and Jones doesn't.

Jones has shown he can throw to wide open elite targets who are head and shoulders better than the opposing defenders behind an elite OL that is also head and shoulders better than the opposing defenders. Good luck replicating that at the NFL level.

When plays broke down at LSU, Burrow still made positive things happen. If the first read wasn't wide open at Alabama (a true rarity) the play was generally a dud.

If you think that Burrow's arm strength is absolutely better than Jones', then you clearly didn't watch one or both actually play.  Neither has a cannon, but both can make all of the throws.  Jones has never had a problem making whatever throw was required of him...even on deep balls.

I find it funny that you try to use that elite target myth to prove your point.  Jones played with one guaranteed first rounder for most of the year (Waddle got injured early), while Burrow was throwing to three likely first round targets, with one that battled for rookie of the year, and the other being talked about as a top five pick.  And both had elite RB that could catch out of the backfield, so that is a wash.

And while it didn't happen a lot, plays did break down for Jones, and he usually handled those situations very well.  He's not a great athlete, but he is very good moving around in the pocket, and he was able to make some plays with his legs as well on occasion.  And yes, he can throw on the run, but like most QB's he was not as good as when he was able to set his feet.

So again, you have provided nothing to support the idea that other than his athleticism, there really isn't anything Burrow did better than Jones.

[Woodie]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

His arm is average for a P5 D1 QB. It's definitely below average at the NFL level. Don't get triggered, but it's probably on par with Teddy's 

I love how triggered people pre-emptively warn someone against becoming triggered.

Go look at whatever video you can get your hands on and show examples of where Jones consistently shows he doesn't have decent arm strength.  I seriously doubt you'll find much (which is why I expect you'll deflect and try to turn this on me). 

I'll be perfectly honest, I went into this college season thinking Jones was nothing but a game manager.  But the more Alabama games I watched, the more I began to realize that he was much more than I expected.  My advise for you is to not dig your heels in and stubbornly stick yo your preconceived ideas, instead go watch him with some objectivity.  If you do this, I believe you will be surprised that he's more than you expected.

    

[LinvilleGorge]

38 minutes ago, Woodie said:

If you think that Burrow's arm strength is absolutely better than Jones', then you clearly didn't watch one or both actually play.  Neither has a cannon, but both can make all of the throws.  Jones has never had a problem making whatever throw was required of him...even on deep balls.

I find it funny that you try to use that elite target myth to prove your point.  Jones played with one guaranteed first rounder for most of the year (Waddle got injured early), while Burrow was throwing to three likely first round targets, with one that battled for rookie of the year, and the other being talked about as a top five pick.  And both had elite RB that could catch out of the backfield, so that is a wash.

And while it didn't happen a lot, plays did break down for Jones, and he usually handled those situations very well.  He's not a great athlete, but he is very good moving around in the pocket, and he was able to make some plays with his legs as well on occasion.  And yes, he can throw on the run, but like most QB's he was not as good as when he was able to set his feet.

So again, you have provided nothing to support the idea that other than his athleticism, there really isn't anything Burrow did better than Jones.

Yes. Burrow's arm is better. Honestly I didn't read the rest.

[LinvilleGorge]

25 minutes ago, Woodie said:

I love how triggered people pre-emptively warn someone against becoming triggered.

Go look at whatever video you can get your hands on and show examples of where Jones consistently shows he doesn't have decent arm strength.  I seriously doubt you'll find much (which is why I expect you'll deflect and try to turn this on me). 

I'll be perfectly honest, I went into this college season thinking Jones was nothing but a game manager.  But the more Alabama games I watched, the more I began to realize that he was much more than I expected.  My advise for you is to not dig your heels in and stubbornly stick yo your preconceived ideas, instead go watch him with some objectivity.  If you do this, I believe you will be surprised that he's more than you expected.

    

All those times wide open deep receivers have a to slow to a near stop to wait on the ball to get there. I mean, just watch a Bama game. It happens every game.

[Basbear]

Please stop about Burrow vs Jones, but if you want to do Tua vs Jones.....thats a legit comparison(also far less variables)  Burrow was similar to Arod, DJones, Fitz in that some downs they could get a 23 yard run on a 3rd and 15. Burrow also hit real NFL throws in tight windows on the move at times. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Basbear

[catnip]

Rhule had a good look at Jones at the senior bowl so he knows what his skill set is .  Look at how many super bowls Brady has  made and he is not a mobile QB .   Your pick at QB depends on the system your are trying to run .  Most running QBs don't last long in the NFL . I'm in the camp to stay at #8 or trade back for more picks .  I just don't want to mortgage our future giving up future picks . 

[Shocker]

7 minutes ago, catnip said:

Rhule had a good look at Jones at the senior bowl so he knows what his skill set is .  Look at how many super bowls Brady has  made and he is not a mobile QB .   Your pick at QB depends on the system your are trying to run .  Most running QBs don't last long in the NFL . I'm in the camp to stay at #8 or trade back for more picks .  I just don't want to mortgage our future giving up future picks . 

Yeah 1 thing I have learned is that any time a QB is compared to Brady that is a bad thing.  Unathletic QBs rarely work out and Brady is an exception in a big way.

[Basbear]

1 minute ago, Shocker said:

Yeah 1 thing I have learned is that any time a QB is compared to Brady that is a bad thing.  Unathletic QBs rarely work out and Brady is an exception in a big way.

Brady is the GOAT and all, but one of GOAT traits was In pocket movement. Honestly he has superman sense about being able to take a half/full step/s right, left, north, south to avoid sacks/hurries. He watched tape over and over to learn the preferred angles of defenders. Weak points that most other QBs overlook when its study time. 

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yes. Burrow's arm is better. Honestly I didn't read the rest.

Of course not...who needs to be objective. LOL.

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

All those times wide open deep receivers have a to slow to a near stop to wait on the ball to get there. I mean, just watch a Bama game. It happens every game.

Really?  Go find me some examples.  Show a pattern, then I will acknowledge you are right.

The thing is, I watched most of Alabama's games this year, and no, receivers typically didn't have to wait on the ball.  Jones' ball placement, even on deep balls, was stellar.

[Mistuh Jones]

8 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Laugh all you want--your point is outrageous.  So that is how you evaluate a player?  Really?  Do you like Fields?  I will wait for your Ohio State comparison.  Do you like Lance?  You must like Wentz then.

Instead of comparing Jones to prior Alabama QBs, why not compare him to another SEC QB who rose from obscurity to become a national champion the year before:  Joe Burrow.

Joe Burrow (2019) vs. Mac Jones (2020): Passing statistics

Joe Burrow, LSU (2019)		Mac Jones, Alabama (2020)
94.9	PFF grade	95.5
94.1	PFF passing grade	94.5
10.8	Yards per attempt	11.2
140.9	Passer rating when clean	142.4
141.1	Passer rating under pressure	122.7
24.3%	Uncatchable pass % on throws 10-plus yards	18.7%
37.9%	Uncatchable pass % on tight-window throws	34.7%

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-alabama-crimson-tide-qb-mac-jones-best-in-cfb-history

See?  Your game works both ways.  But if you broaden the scope of your comparison theory and eliminate speculation, you can only compare what Jones has done to what others have done--in college.  So if you think comparing him to previous players at his school give anyone some epiphany of wisdom, then I assure you, that is no basis for an intelligent conversation.  You see, I use facts and data to form opinions, not emojis, zingers, and memes.  Maybe that is the difference.  Still waiting?

Jones is gonna suck despite your railing against it. I'm unmoved. Don't need a statistical analysis for my opinion. Sorry dude, just don't care