Excluding Deshaun Watson & Zach Wilson...

[LinvilleGorge]

24 minutes ago, Varking said:

Fields is still the #2 QB on my board. #3 overall. People dig into everything Fields does but excuse the concerns of Lance and Wilson at the same time. It’s just a matter of preference I guess. 
 

Lance has played one season of football in 3 years. And really it’s even crazier than that. He was at a high school that didn’t throw the ball. So he wasn’t really quarterbacking in high school. He goes to college and sits a year on the best team in their league. Then he plays one amazing year on the best team in his league and then he plays 30 passes in one game where he looked god awful on the best team in the league against lesser comp. But ignore real concerns and base his elite status off of one year.

 

Wilson played one mediocre team all year and looked pedestrian at best. They’ll excuse the entire season before that because he was playing hurt but won’t look at the two bad Fields games where half or 4/5 of the oline, the #1, 3, 4 and 5 pass catching options were missing. 

Fields has concerns as well but I just don’t understand why Fields is held to a much higher standard than the others. That Fields game against Clemson this past season? That’s the type of game that neither Wilson or Lance has ever had. Banged up against a championship caliber football team and he lit them up. 

It's less about how the looked in college and more about how the traits and skills transfer to the NFL. When Fields has struggled in the games I've watched, it's when he has to come off of his first read. That's gonna be a problem in the NFL. If he can't develop the ability to go through a progression he's not a starting NFL QB. It's not necessarily a crushing indictment though. Herbert was the same story at Oregon.

[NAS]

Lance has Mahomes written all over him.  Best pick at #8

[davos]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

It's less about how the looked in college and more about how the traits and skills transfer to the NFL. When Fields has struggled in the games I've watched, it's when he has to come off of his first read. That's gonna be a problem in the NFL. If he can't develop the ability to go through a progression he's not a starting NFL QB. It's not necessarily a crushing indictment though. Herbert was the same story at Oregon.

I won't lie, I thought Herbert looked Blaine Gabbertish and was really surprised by his play in LA. When I saw a few of his college games, I just didn't see a guy commanding the game but he really stepped up.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, davos said:

I won't lie, I thought Herbert looked Blaine Gabbertish and was really surprised by his play in LA. When I saw a few of his college games, I just didn't see a guy commanding the game but he really stepped up.

He did. But it was all about that offensive system. It was painfully dumbed down and simplified. My concern with Herbert was that may have been due to his abilities or perceived abilities by the staff. Turns out, that's just their offense and now their starting QB is transferring. Probably because he doesn't want to keep running a HS offense and wants to show the NFL he can do more while also preparing himself to actually do more.

[BrianS]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's less about how the looked in college and more about how the traits and skills transfer to the NFL. When Fields has struggled in the games I've watched, it's when he has to come off of his first read. That's gonna be a problem in the NFL. If he can't develop the ability to go through a progression he's not a starting NFL QB. It's not necessarily a crushing indictment though. Herbert was the same story at Oregon.

This is the thing that has changed so much in the college game and caused so many issues with college QB's translating.  The college game has so many one read systems in it now that QB's there just don't get the chance to learn how to quickly work through a progression.  You really have to learn how to watch a college QB for traits without getting hung up in their statistics.

[davos]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He did. But it was all about that offensive system. It was painfully dumbed down and simplified. My concern with Herbert was that may have been due to his abilities or perceived abilities by the staff. Turns out, that's just their offense and now their starting QB is transferring. Probably because he doesn't want to keep running a HS offense and wants to show the NFL he can do more while also preparing himself to actually do more.

True true.

I actually think there's a bit of intangibles missing in Herbert (even considering his good play).  This is where Fields actually has some toughness/win at all costs guts I like to see that's not in every prospect.  Sometimes you can just tell and his college playoff performances two years in a row really showed a lot in that respect.

This Zach kid seemed to be Manziel-ing & Favre-ing around with lesser competition whereas Fields would do what he had to do to get first and get that team downfield.  Was really throwing himself into it.

I just can't speak to Lance enough but I really like what I've seen in his interviews and he's built to play the game. 

[davos]

Here's a vid on Zach that I think explains well why people are falling for Zach even considering his comp.  Can't say I think he's the best but see the argument for #2:

 

[MHS831]

If Houston deals Watson, it will be to NYJ in most scenarios.  They will need a QB out of the deal, and #2 gives them one, #8 will not provide a starting QB.

The Dolphins will not trade for Watson or draft a QB.  think about it--they draft a guy #5 overall--ahead of Herbert--and he is on the surgeon's table. Then there is no OTA, no summer workouts for him, no preseason--and they are ready to move on from him?  No.  That would be stupid.  They will build around Tua. Hell, if the front office grabs another qb--they need to be fired while watching Herbert's highlight film.  Do they go with local boy Fields?  Doubt it.

Atlanta is more likely to draft a QB than Miami--and that would probably be dumb with the #4 pick unless WIlson is there--and he won't be. Atlanta has a ton of holes, a QB with some tread left on a bad contract--they trade back.  If  So Atlanta will trade back and draft a defensive player or two or three.

Who trades up?  Teams looking for a QB?  I would assume that Lawrence and Wilson are gone before Cincinnati picks, but I am not sure Lance or Fields is solid enough to get a team to trade away a ton to move up.  I expect Chase, Sewell, and maybe even Parsons or Pitts to slide into the top 10 at some point before the Panthers pick.  I would also assume Fields finds a landing spot in 1-7. 

So it comes down to this:  Who is desperate enough for a QB that they would trade capital enough to move up to #3, #4, or #5 for a QB?  You could guess Detroit, but they have Goff, so why not draft a few players to build the defense and give him a WR weapon?  Hard to imagine Chase or even Smith getting by this spot.  No QB--they need WR, DL, LB, DB, and then QB.  They could trade--the Lions would not be that expensive for a team like SF or NE to make a move-and I think Bill B. in NE is singing Cam's praises to smokescreen his intent.  

Will Philly go with Hurt?  Would they draft ANOTHER NDSU QB?  I think Hurt is thier guy for now.

So there will be trades, and nobody will know a thing until April 30.  I can tell you that the first two picks are Lawrence and Wilson.  Book it.

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by MHS831

[JawnyBlaze]

I’m not sure which I prefer, Fields or Lance. Lance is more boom or bust. And I’m also not sure whether I’d prefer one of those two or trade a mid round pick for Darnold or something along those lines, draft well this year and prepare to be aggressive in the draft for a QB next year. I would be happy with pretty much any scenario that doesn’t include Bridgewater taking another snap for us. Except maybe Alex Smith. Not sure I’d be satisfied if we signed him. 

[CanadianCat]

Im doubtful that we land a QB this draft. 

Im just hoping that Teddy makes a similar transition that Derek Carr made this past year. 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Im doubtful that we land a QB this draft. 

Im just hoping that Teddy makes a similar transition that Derek Carr made this past year. 

Yeah, I wouldn't hope too hard. Carr's worst year would be Teddy's best. Carr is just a lot better.

[CanadianCat]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I wouldn't hope too hard. Carr's worst year would be Teddy's best. Carr is just a lot better.

I get what you are saying but thats not entirely a fair comparison. Im not tied to Teddy, but if we dont get a QB, I would bet that Teddy is going to be much better this coming year than he was last year. And a few more plays from Teddy this past year would have shut the entire QB conversation down. 

[Varking]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's less about how the looked in college and more about how the traits and skills transfer to the NFL. When Fields has struggled in the games I've watched, it's when he has to come off of his first read. That's gonna be a problem in the NFL. If he can't develop the ability to go through a progression he's not a starting NFL QB. It's not necessarily a crushing indictment though. Herbert was the same story at Oregon.

Wasn’t Fields the second highest of the 5 potential QBs per PFF on secondary reads? Mac Jones being the worst? A whole bunch of Fields home run balls came on second reads. 

[CRA]

Here is the Fields problem IMO. 

2019 - Fields was a superstar.  Everyone evaluated Trevor and Fields as peers.

2020 kicks off - Fields resumes where he left off.  Everyone raving about him.  Best in college football stuff. 

**COVID hits Ohio St like crazy.   3 games of 20+ players out.  In between 2 canceled games because of too many players out with COVID.  Fields doesn’t look good here. OL out.  WRs out.   Is he struggling to make reads or or is it just a mess of mixed up players each week lining up causing problems? There is no comparable to what Ohio St endured here.  They are just trying to log a game to get to the CFP. 

Players return

2020 - CFP - Fields destroys Clemson.  He does have a bad game vs Bama.  

the problem is all the criticism IMO is overly focused on the COVID 5 week window.    If you put that 5 week window aside the knock on Fields is he had a bad game vs Alabama.  That’s it.