Could we be sleeping on Mac Jones? Charlie Weiss says YES.

[Fox007]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Now, I think there is an conversation of is Lawrence being overrated.  Given he is basically put in the Peyton Manning/Elway/Luck tier of a NFL draft. 

Trevor is easily the most talented QB in this draft.   From a skill set perspective.  And his on field performances.   He is as safe of a bet as their is.   Will his ceiling be as high as some predict? Well, the Jags will have a lot to do with that. 

 

TBH, as a Clemson fan he is a little overrated. I have no issue being real. He often goes on streaks where he misses badly and in a lot of our big games the WR made sick ass catches from bad passes. Everyone is ignoring that because his ceiling actually is that of Manning/Elway/Luck but he isn't a sure thing just like no one is.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

TBH, as a Clemson fan he is a little overrated. I have no issue being real. He often goes on streaks where he misses badly and in a lot of our big games the WR made sick ass catches from bad passes. Everyone is ignoring that because his ceiling actually is that of Manning/Elway/Luck but he isn't a sure thing just like no one is.

yeah, also as a Clemson fan, I think it is a real conversation if he is being overrated.   But that is in the context of does he really belong in that Manning/Elway tier. 

but he is still easily the clear cut #1 overall in this draft.  Two different things IMO. 

I still think Watson was the better Clemson QB.   But Lawrence has the better physical tools. 

 

[Mage]

Yes, Mac Jones is mechanically sound.

But he plays for Alabama.  And yes, I get it.  It is the player, not the team, that matters the most.  And I'm usually in full agreement of not holding it against the player for the team he played for.

But this is Alabama we're talking about.  They are so much better than the next college football team, it is ridiculous.  Think about this: Ohio State is littered with talent.  They are/were arguably the 2nd most talented team in college last year.  They slapped Clemson.  And guess what Bama did to them?  They clapped them.  It wasn't even competitive after the 2nd quarter.

Mac Jones has some good traits but it is far easier to look mechanically sound playing at Alabama than it is at a program like North Carolina or BYU.  

And we're already seeing a trend in the NFL where immobile pocket passers seem to struggle transitioning to the NFL a lot more than athletic QBs.  Even a guy like Burrow is far more mobile inside and outside the pocket than Jones (and I'll admit, I was very hesitant about Burrow, but I think he showed enough as a rookie that makes me convinced he'll keep progressing).  So you are banking on Jones' mechanics holding up on a team that definitely will not have the kind of talent gap that Alabama has with the next best team.

Same reason I wasn't big on Tua (although I liked him more than Jones).  Yeah, he was very good if not great, but did he ever jump off the screen?  Was I ever like, "man, this dude is why Alabama is so hard to beat?"  Eh, not really.  

IMO for me to take on an Alabama QB, he's gotta be a freak.  I'm talking he's got to be the best player on the field.  Someone who can take over a game with their arm regardless of what is around him.  And I never saw that in Jones.  I saw a guy who could play very well on a great team.  He's a great manager of the game (I don't mean that in a bad way), but he reminds me of a Kirk Cousins.  Again, not a bad thing, and obviously you take that guy in the 2nd round if he's there. 

But for me personally I don't like watching QBs like that.  I don't think that is the QB you want if you want to consistently win in this league (IMO this is the reason why, while Ryan is a very good QB, Falcons as a team are just really inconsistent).  You want a QB who can take over games.  You want a QB who can leave his stamp on the field no matter the guys around him.  And yeah it is possible your team still loses games if they are bad enough (see: 2020 Texans), but that is the kind of guy I want.  Someone that will WILL your team to victory.

And Jones to me isn't that kind of QB.  He's a guy who is going to play extremely well if the talent on offense is there, but he won't elevate you.  Which again... not the worst thing in the world, and I do consider the comparison to Matt Ryan to be accurate so if he reached that point then yeah he'd have been worth taking in the 1st round.  But that is a long-shot.  Nowadays it just feels like it takes way more work for those kind of guys to succeed than it does QBs that can move around.      Cousins and Goff are really the only 2 recent QBs taken that are fairly immobile and found success... and WFT let Cousins leave (and he wasn't taken in the 1st anyway) and Rams just traded Goff.

[OldhamA]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

If Mac Jones was there at our 2nd pick? Yeah, I would draft him.   Would be worth the value/risk there.   I wouldn't make that my plan.   Just if it happened to unfold where we missed out on everyone. 

First round? Nope. 

I feel the same way, but about Trey Lance.

Jones isn't making it out of the first round btw.

[BrizzMachete]

I said it during the senior bowl Mac Jones won me over i like him . All he do is make the right throws and comparing him to teddy is about as dumb as comparing Zach Wilson to Mahomes . All that being said i still have him below fields and lance 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, Mage said:

Yes, Mac Jones is mechanically sound.

But he plays for Alabama.  And yes, I get it.  It is the player, not the team, that matters the most.  And I'm usually in full agreement of not holding it against the player for the team he played for.

But this is Alabama we're talking about.  They are so much better than the next college football team, it is ridiculous.  Think about this: Ohio State is littered with talent.  They are/were arguably the 2nd most talented team in college last year.  They slapped Clemson.  And guess what Bama did to them?  They clapped them.  It wasn't even competitive after the 2nd quarter.

Mac Jones has some good traits but it is far easier to look mechanically sound playing at Alabama than it is at a program like North Carolina or BYU.  

And we're already seeing a trend in the NFL where immobile pocket passers seem to struggle transitioning to the NFL a lot more than athletic QBs.  Even a guy like Burrow is far more mobile inside and outside the pocket than Jones (and I'll admit, I was very hesitant about Burrow, but I think he showed enough as a rookie that makes me convinced he'll keep progressing).  So you are banking on Jones' mechanics holding up on a team that definitely will not have the kind of talent gap that Alabama has with the next best team.

Same reason I wasn't big on Tua (although I liked him more than Jones).  Yeah, he was very good if not great, but did he ever jump off the screen?  Was I ever like, "man, this dude is why Alabama is so hard to beat?"  Eh, not really.  

IMO for me to take on an Alabama QB, he's gotta be a freak.  I'm talking he's got to be the best player on the field.  Someone who can take over a game with their arm regardless of what is around him.  And I never saw that in Jones.  I saw a guy who could play very well on a great team.  He's a great manager of the game (I don't mean that in a bad way), but he reminds me of a Kirk Cousins.  Again, not a bad thing, and obviously you take that guy in the 2nd round if he's there. 

But for me personally I don't like watching QBs like that.  I don't think that is the QB you want if you want to consistently win in this league (IMO this is the reason why, while Ryan is a very good QB, Falcons as a team are just really inconsistent).  You want a QB who can take over games.  You want a QB who can leave his stamp on the field no matter the guys around him.  And yeah it is possible your team still loses games if they are bad enough (see: 2020 Texans), but that is the kind of guy I want.  Someone that will WILL your team to victory.

And Jones to me isn't that kind of QB.  He's a guy who is going to play extremely well if the talent on offense is there, but he won't elevate you.  Which again... not the worst thing in the world, and I do consider the comparison to Matt Ryan to be accurate so if he reached that point then yeah he'd have been worth taking in the 1st round.  But that is a long-shot.  Nowadays it just feels like it takes way more work for those kind of guys to succeed than it does QBs that can move around.      Cousins and Goff are really the only 2 recent QBs taken that are fairly immobile and found success... and WFT let Cousins leave (and he wasn't taken in the 1st anyway) and Rams just traded Goff.

problem with Mac IMO is if you put Bama up against good competition.....his WR are still running around wide open too routinely.   So you got an unathletic/accurate QB playing with the most talented roster in football.  And Bama is that every year.  Even when they lose.  They are have the best roster.  

unathletic QBs are a dying breed IMO.  You don't have to be Lamar Jackson.  But you need to be able to extend plays.  Brady's pocket movement/awareness is just absurd.   I mean, most kickers are probably more athletic than Brady.  Just a unicorn. 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Mage said:

Yes, Mac Jones is mechanically sound.

But he plays for Alabama.  And yes, I get it.  It is the player, not the team, that matters the most.  And I'm usually in full agreement of not holding it against the player for the team he played for.

But this is Alabama we're talking about.  They are so much better than the next college football team, it is ridiculous.  Think about this: Ohio State is littered with talent.  They are/were arguably the 2nd most talented team in college last year.  They slapped Clemson.  And guess what Bama did to them?  They clapped them.  It wasn't even competitive after the 2nd quarter.

Mac Jones has some good traits but it is far easier to look mechanically sound playing at Alabama than it is at a program like North Carolina or BYU.  

And we're already seeing a trend in the NFL where immobile pocket passers seem to struggle transitioning to the NFL a lot more than athletic QBs.  Even a guy like Burrow is far more mobile inside and outside the pocket than Jones (and I'll admit, I was very hesitant about Burrow, but I think he showed enough as a rookie that makes me convinced he'll keep progressing).  So you are banking on Jones' mechanics holding up on a team that definitely will not have the kind of talent gap that Alabama has with the next best team.

Same reason I wasn't big on Tua (although I liked him more than Jones).  Yeah, he was very good if not great, but did he ever jump off the screen?  Was I ever like, "man, this dude is why Alabama is so hard to beat?"  Eh, not really.  

IMO for me to take on an Alabama QB, he's gotta be a freak.  I'm talking he's got to be the best player on the field.  Someone who can take over a game with their arm regardless of what is around him.  And I never saw that in Jones.  I saw a guy who could play very well on a great team.  He's a great manager of the game (I don't mean that in a bad way), but he reminds me of a Kirk Cousins.  Again, not a bad thing, and obviously you take that guy in the 2nd round if he's there. 

But for me personally I don't like watching QBs like that.  I don't think that is the QB you want if you want to consistently win in this league (IMO this is the reason why, while Ryan is a very good QB, Falcons as a team are just really inconsistent).  You want a QB who can take over games.  You want a QB who can leave his stamp on the field no matter the guys around him.  And yeah it is possible your team still loses games if they are bad enough (see: 2020 Texans), but that is the kind of guy I want.  Someone that will WILL your team to victory.

And Jones to me isn't that kind of QB.  He's a guy who is going to play extremely well if the talent on offense is there, but he won't elevate you.  Which again... not the worst thing in the world, and I do consider the comparison to Matt Ryan to be accurate so if he reached that point then yeah he'd have been worth taking in the 1st round.  But that is a long-shot.  Nowadays it just feels like it takes way more work for those kind of guys to succeed than it does QBs that can move around.      Cousins and Goff are really the only 2 recent QBs taken that are fairly immobile and found success... and WFT let Cousins leave (and he wasn't taken in the 1st anyway) and Rams just traded Goff.

Goff and Cousins are the comparisons I keep coming back to as well, but I honestly think both are still considerably more athletic than Jones. Jones is basically a pure pocket passer with a below average arm. That doesn't seem like the makings of a starting NFL QB to me.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, BrizzMachete said:

I said it during the senior bowl Mac Jones won me over i like him . All he do is make the right throws and comparing him to teddy is about as dumb as comparing Zach Wilson to Mahomes . All that being said i still have him below fields and lance 

He's basically a less athletic Teddy but has the guts to throw the ball more than ten yards down the field.

[BrizzMachete]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's basically a less athletic Teddy but has the guts to throw the ball more than ten yards down the field.

I don’t see teddy at all . Teddy can’t make the throws i seen Mac Jones consistently make idk where those comparisons even come from. Kellen Monds is more teddy (throwing wise) than anyone if you want to go the comparison route . I get it his game isn’t sexy but he can get that ball down the field,  teddy can’t . 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, BrizzMachete said:

I don’t see teddy at all . Teddy can’t make the throws i seen Mac Jones consistently make idk where those comparisons even come from. Kellen Monds is more teddy (throwing wise) than anyone if you want to go the comparison route . I get it his game isn’t sexy but he can get that ball down the field,  teddy can’t . 

Jones is throwing more often than not to dudes that are wide open. The downfield throws usually aren't that great. They basically look like Teddy's, NFL DBs just have a lot better recovery ability than college DBs.

[AU-panther]

4 minutes ago, BrizzMachete said:

I don’t see teddy at all . Teddy can’t make the throws i seen Mac Jones consistently make idk where those comparisons even come from. Kellen Monds is more teddy (throwing wise) than anyone if you want to go the comparison route . I get it his game isn’t sexy but he can get that ball down the field,  teddy can’t . 

being able to throw deep isn't the same as being willing to.

I doubt there is a huge difference in arm strength between the two, Teddy just chooses to be really conservative for whatever reason.

 

[thefuzz]

Just tossing it out there, but the super athletically gifted passers typically burst onto the scene a little faster...but the really good passers tend to stick around for a LONG time.

Not many people are going to look at Brady, Manning 1 or 2, Rivers, Stafford, etc...and knock them for their inability to scramble or rack up yards...but they were/are starters for 20 years and you can win championships with them.

I would much prefer to have a Josh Allen or Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers...those dudes have it all...but I'm not going to bitch if we get a slow footed, but really good passer.

Mac Jones isn't my cup of tea, but he could absolutely be a very good starter in the league.

[BrizzMachete]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Jones is throwing more often than not to dudes that are wide open. The downfield throws usually aren't that great. They basically look like Teddy's, NFL DBs just have a lot better recovery ability than college DBs.

Where is this he’s throwing to wide open guys narrative coming from i see it used so many times this pass year or so never before. You know how many qbs i seen miss wide open guys down the field ?  Now it’s a problem when they make a completion to them lol  . It’s lazy to judge a qb off of just that . Guess Joe burrow is gonna be bust as well cause his guys was running wide open all over the field his last year. Check out his (Mac Jones) red zone throws dude has great ball placement i like him that’s just me tho. 

[PandaMan]

I’ll be honest, I don’t want to draft Mac Jones, period.  He gives me Christian Ponder vibes.  If we’re unable to get Desean Watson it’s Trey Lance or bust, baby!