Suppose CMC is part of the deal for Watson

[BurnNChinn]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Wait... Do you genuinely not know that Bill Voth is employed by the Panthers?

I swear, we've reached a whole new level of dumb in this thread

Who cares u really think Tepper, Fitterer or Rhule tells him anything. U can’t be this dumb can u?

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, BurnNChinn said:

Who cares u really think Tepper, Fitterer or Rhule tells him anything. U can’t be this dumb can u?

Could be worse.

Imagine being dumb enough to think that I, as a random internet guy, actually know more about what's going on inside the team than somebody who works for them.

Now that would take a complete moron.

[BurnNChinn]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Could be worse.

Imagine being dumb enough to think that I, as a random internet guy, actually know more about what's going on inside the team than somebody who works for them.

Now that would take a complete moron.

U thinking Voth knows what going on that much, yep that takes a complete moron.

[MechaZain]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

There is no hindsight.  He had 2 years left on his rookie deal.  It was unnecessary. 

You just knew the injuries would start right after the ink dried, huh? Pfft, no hindsight....

You're forgetting how high Christian's stock was at the time. Barring a career threatening injury Zeke's money was the starting point.

[mrcompletely11]

13 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

You just knew the injuries would start right after the ink dried, huh? Pfft, no hindsight....

You're forgetting how high Christian's stock was at the time. Barring a career threatening injury Zeke's money was the starting point.

Jesus dude they didn’t need to extend him when they did.  You are not getting it

[MechaZain]

No one under contract "needs" to be extended what are you talking about. You do it early to try and get them at a good price before they're a free agent. Christian would have gotten at least 15m/yr with or without us.

Edited February 21, 2021 by MechaZain

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

That is the point with stats. They are numbers plain and simple. The analysis is key and what gives numbers context. And our system as it was run last year doesn't focus on the running back as simply a running back but someone who can block, run and catch passes which is why McCaffrey is so valuable.  It isn't looking simply at a position but how that position is used by that team thus defining the value of that player to that team. That is why as valuable as Davis was last year he was a partial replacement for CMC who can do everything Davis can do and much more. 

It remains to be seen if CMC gets the workload that he did under Rivera or not. 

2017

12.3 touches per game.
70% offensive snap count.

2018

20.4 touches per game.
91% offensive snap count.

2019

25.2 touches per game.
93% offensive snap count.

2020(only three games played)

25.3 touches per game.
77% offensive snap count.

The snap count in 2020 is difficult to unpack. The only full healthy game he played was at 97% snap count and in the other two he was injured during the game. That makes this pretty difficult to surmise how exactly we would have used him in our new offense. His replacement, Mike Davis, fluctuated from the mid-50's to upper 80's in percentage of snap count. 

 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, MechaZain said:

The market was $15m/yr for the top RB in the league at the time. Hurney had a guy that was even better, and managed to only pay an extra $1m/yr more for him. That's good negotiation on both parts.

I totally get you. The debate over whether the position is overvalued in general is completely valid, but relative to his peers it was good deal and arguably a bargain on Hurney's part. 

At the moment, it has been far from a bargain at $25 mil paid for three games. He will need to stay healthy and produce for that to be the case. 

I don't think "bargain" and top paid player at the position are really ever in the same sentence without some serious team hardware to be considered. 

[rayzor]

If the choice is am elite QB or elite RB, you take the elite QB. I want to keep CMC, but I'd rather have Watson if forced to choose.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, MechaZain said:

No one under contract "needs" to be extended what are you talking about. You do it early to try and get them at a good price before they're a free agent. Christian would have gotten at least 15m/yr with or without us.

That wasn't a good price, however. The argument for extending early IS to get a good price and that simply did not happen. 

It was an a bad signing at the time and in hindsight it looks a lot worse. Doesn't mean he wasn't worth that money at all, but the timing was idiotic and the amount was directly counter to what the majority of winning teams in the NFL do. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by kungfoodude

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That wasn't a good price, however. The argument for extending early IS to get a good price and that simply did not happen. 

It was an a bad signing at the time and in hindsight it looks a lot worse. Doesn't mean he wasn't worth that money at all, but the timing was idiotic and the amount was directly counter to what the majority of winning teams in the NFL do. 

After year 3 what did they think he was going to do, hold out?

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

After year 3 what did they think he was going to do, hold out?

I remember people making that argument at the time. Admittedly, we couldn't have predicted the cap drop but it wasn't hard to predict that making a RB the highest paid in the league wasn't a good idea. 

[MechaZain]

56 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That wasn't a good price, however. The argument for extending early IS to get a good price and that simply did not happen. 

You're basing that entirely on your opinion of the position's value and not the actual market for the top runningback in football. It was $15m/yr and everyone knew he was was better. We can argue till the cows come about whether they should be getting that much.

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

You're basing that entirely on your opinion of the position's value and not the actual market for the top runningback in football. It was $15m/yr and everyone knew he was was better. We can argue till the cows come about whether they should be getting that much.

Well it isn't just my opinion, it is largely all the successful franchises in the NFL.

But I suppose if we take unsuccessful franchises into account, then there is at least a minority of teams that believe it makes sense to waste money on a position of lower value.

I wouldn't even argue that he doesn't deserve that money based on Elliott's contract. We just didn't need to be the team that did it. Unsurprisingly, it was the worst GM in the history of the franchise that authored that deal.