The question of Curtis. Tim Weaver wants to keep him.

[panthers320]

26 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but Samuel can legitimately play RB. That was his natural position coming out of college. Can you say the same for these guys?

Samuel is a nice route runner as well.

then take Felton from UCLA who was a RB who caught a lot of balls and is transitioning to WR. 

[Fox007]

12 hours ago, PantherKyle said:

No thanks. Not worth the contract for a #3. Also liking him more than DJ is ludicrous. 

Watching all those plays where DJ was open for a Deep touchdown only to have a 2 yard pass thrown on 3rd and 4

With a QB worth a fug DJ would have had 10 TDs at least...Samuel is the usual WR that puts up #s with a short passing QB. Good to have but clearly not a 1 or 2 main target WR and is not going to command big money in FA dunno where someone got that idea lol. He was still out performed by DJ with less catches and by Anderson. None of our WRs have the TDs they should have b/c of TB though.

Good 3rd/utility player, can be replaced by even just having CMC back. CMC can go to the slot while Davis is getting carries for example.

 

[thefuzz]

 

2017 Draft.

CMC, Moton, Samuel, Butker.

4 really really good players, and we mismanaged all 4.

Bravo.

 

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

You are entitled to that opinion, I just don't agree. Look at our franchise draft history alone. We have only ever drafted 2-3 upper tier WR's in team history, not including DJ Moore.

Moore has the capability of being one of the elite WR's in the NFL. Samuel is a great utility player but I don't envision him ever being a #1 WR, nor do I envision him ever leading his team in receptions or receiving yards. He's not a go to player that can still thrive as the focal point of an offense. 

I'm not sure that Moore can thrive as the sole focal point of an offense. He is a great contested catch receiver (those 50/50 balls I referenced in an earlier post), and is a YAC generator, but his route running still leaves something to be desired. And, to be blount, he still hasn't shown any superiority against man coverage, and as such his route tree is more limited than that of a true number one receiver. He'still limited.

You can only talk "potential" for so long when a guy is showing marginal improvement at best. He should have made greater strides.

On an off note, for Samuel to be a "utility player", he certainly produced a lot of meaningful production.

Edited February 18, 2021 by top dawg

[top dawg]

I mean, some people are giving Moore a pass and willing to open up the bank vault, but he hasn't really shown to be a true WR1. His ceiling may not be that much higher. And yet, the same people get all stingy when it comes to Samuel, who is the better route runner. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by top dawg

[Varking]

16 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I mean, some people are giving Moore a pass and willing to open up the bank vault, but he hasn't really shown to be a true WR1. His ceiling may not be that much higher. And yet, the same people get all stingy when it comes to Samuel, who is the better route runner. 

Because Moore also does his work against the other teams top DB and has produced 2 great years. Samuel matches up against the #2 or #3 DB on most plays. It’s easier for him. Switch Moore and Samuel and I bet DJ still puts up great numbers and Samuel drops being defended against by superior players. 

[top dawg]

19 minutes ago, Varking said:

Because Moore also does his work against the other teams top DB and has produced 2 great years. Samuel matches up against the #2 or #3 DB on most plays. It’s easier for him. Switch Moore and Samuel and I bet DJ still puts up great numbers and Samuel drops being defended against by superior players. 

I don't know if that's true or not, and I haven't seen any verifiable data on it, just opinion. Moreover, the fact is that during his rookie year, Samuel was flashing against the top DBs until he got hurt. Plus, there's just something to be said about route running. I bet Samuel is looking even better after last season. 

Moore's best routes are the dig and slant. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by top dawg

[Varking]

26 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't know if that's true or not, and I haven't seen any verifiable data on it, just opinion. Moreover, the fact is that during his rookie year, Samuel was flashing against the top DBs until he got hurt. Plus, there's just something to be said about route running. I bet Samuel is looking even better after last season. 

Moore's best routes are the dig and slant. 

You don’t see verifiable data on it because the coaches know not to match Curtis against other teams top guy. It’s like JuJu feasting when he had better receivers around him to let him match up against 2s and 3s he looked great. Make him the 1? Doesn’t look so hot. If the money is going to make you choose Curtis or DJ the smart money is on DJ. 
 

Id rather be the Steelers letting Randle El walk away than pay him Washington money. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Varking

[top dawg]

20 minutes ago, Varking said:

You don’t see verifiable data on it because the coaches know not to match Curtis against other teams top guy. It’s like JuJu feasting when he had better receivers around him to let him match up against 2s and 3s he looked great. Make him the 1? Doesn’t look so hot. If the money is going to make you choose Curtis or DJ the smart money is on DJ. 
 

Id rather be the Steelers letting Randle El walk away than pay him Washington money. 

No. I know from just watching games that the top DB is NOT always on Moore.

[Varking]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

No. I know from just watching games that the top DB is NOT always on Moore.

He’s on Moore or he’s on Robbie but most times it’s Moore. And it’s rarely Samuel. You don’t waste your top DB on a guy who averages 500 receiving yards a year compared to a guy who averages 1k. 

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, Varking said:

He’s on Moore or he’s on Robbie but most times it’s Moore. And it’s rarely Samuel. You don’t waste your top DB on a guy who averages 500 receiving yards a year compared to a guy who averages 1k. 

Yeah, that's why Curtis had 851 receiving yards last season on 177 less snaps...

[Varking]

29 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Yeah, that's why Curtis had 851 receiving yards last season on 177 less snaps...

Does that change anything I wrote? He’d be on the field more if he was a legit #2. He’s sometimes the 2 and sometimes the 3. If the team believed he was a 1 he’d be out there. Put him on another team where he has to be the legit #2 guy by himself again and his efficiency likely tanks. Four years in and his best season is 150 receiving yards shy of 1k. 
 

Curtis has had 4 games in four seasons of football breaking 90 yards receiving. 

That’s not #1 receiver stats any way you slice it. This was his breakout year. We got it. Let him walk and go somewhere else where he can make money. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Varking

[TriggaPlease89]

All 3 showed a dynamic that one we get McCaffrey back would make our offense very hard to defend no matter the QB. 

[trueblade]

1 minute ago, TriggaPlease89 said:

All 3 showed a dynamic that one we get McCaffrey back would make our offense very hard to defend no matter the QB. 

Having CMC back isn't going to suddenly make Bridgewater better at the deep ball, or more willing to take shots downfield. Our offense will be limited until such time as we upgrade the QB position.