Guess what this guy is officially off the books!

[The Natural]

17 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That is a problem that spanned both our terrible GM's during that span. 

I am beginning to think there is a curse on the franchise that refuses to let the team see the value in competent OL play. I hope Fitterer is the antidote to that.

Hurney sucked but our o-line and more specifically tackles were usually pretty decent during his tenure.

[Ricky Spanish]

24 minutes ago, Toomers said:

But at least Albert was a bad ass to earn the contract. Kalil was a bottom 5 LT from his rookie year on, if he was healthy enough to play. What were they expecting him to be? 

https://sportsnaut.com/25-worst-nfl-free-agency-contracts-of-the-past-20-years/

Kalil didn't make this list.

Or this one:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/worst-nfl-free-agency-contracts/48fkz11nzo0c1e8x4m1tv44v5/10

There are plenty of contracts that are way worse than Kalil. 

 

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, Toomers said:

I know all the guarantees. You’re just making up a hypothetical scenario to make Teddy’s contract easier to swallow. The players that have injury guarantees have them listed as such. Always have. It’s why they wouldn’t let Kalil back on the team after he quit. If he got hurt, another 7M would have been guaranteed. 
 

   You asked for a link. Now the exact contract terms aren’t good enough? Not sure what you need for proof. If it isn’t guaranteed, why would you have to send a pick to another team to take him? As you said you would. 

You literally don't know those are the exact terms. Read the fine print on that page you pasted.

NFL contracts aren't permanent record. It may be fully guaranteed, it may not be.

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

https://sportsnaut.com/25-worst-nfl-free-agency-contracts-of-the-past-20-years/

Kalil didn't make this list but he should have. 

Having said that, there are plenty of contracts on that list that are way worse than Kalil. 

 

  It’s ugly. But aside from a few QBs, everyone on that list had done something to warrant their deals. None were consistently one of the worst at their position and an injury risk as well. 

[Toomers]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

You literally don't know those are the exact terms. Read the fine print on that page you pasted.

NFL contracts aren't permanent record. It may be fully guaranteed, it may not be.

The fine print says it’s guaranteed. Once again. Why would you have to give JAX a 3rd to take his contract if it wasn’t guaranteed. If you would like show me something that indicates it’s not guaranteed, I’d be more than happy to read it. But until then I’ll roll with reality. 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Toomers said:

The fine print says it’s guaranteed. Once again. Why would you have to give JAX a 3rd to take his contract if it wasn’t guaranteed. If you would like show me something that indicates it’s not guaranteed, I’d be more than happy to read it. But until then I’ll roll with reality. 

Contract Language

Guaranteed money: Media outlets typically announce and talk about the "guaranteed money" in a player's contract. However, much of this money is only partially guaranteed. Compensation in NFL contracts can be guaranteed for three purposes: skill, cap and/or injury.

Compensation in a player contract can be guaranteed for one, two, all or none of the guarantees (subject to some rules). If money in a player contract is protected for skill, cap AND injury, that money is fully guaranteed at signing and will be paid to the player. If money is only guaranteed for one or two of the three protections, that money is only partially guaranteed.

Here is a quick breakdown of each guarantee category:

Skill guarantee: If a player contract is terminated because, in the team's opinion, he does not have the requisite skill (due to a loss or lack of skills comparable to others on the team at his position), the player will be entitled to any money that is protected by a skill guarantee.

Cap guarantee: If a player contract is terminated so that a team can get under the salary cap, sign a free agent or re-sign one of its current players, the player is entitled to any money that is protected by a cap guarantee.

Injury guarantee: If a player is released but is currently unable to perform football duties (i.e., doesn't pass a physical) as a result of team activities, the player is entitled to any money in his contract protected against injury. An injury-only guarantee is the most common in terms of partially guaranteed money.

 

 

If it that $10 mil is fully guaranteed, we owe it to him. If it isn't, we may not owe it to him. Neither of us has access to his contract so we don't know. Hence why I talk in uncertain terms.

Take a look at the articles from when he signed with us. There were about 3-4 different amounts of guaranteed money that were cited. Because those terms are rarely ever disclosed publicly. So they are all relying on "sources." 

Maybe it is is fully guaranteed, maybe it isn't. IF we do move on from him, the manner in which we do will tell us what the nature of the guarantee was/is.

[Snake]

Richardson sure knew how to pick GMs. 

[Toomers]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Contract Language

Guaranteed money: Media outlets typically announce and talk about the "guaranteed money" in a player's contract. However, much of this money is only partially guaranteed. Compensation in NFL contracts can be guaranteed for three purposes: skill, cap and/or injury.

Compensation in a player contract can be guaranteed for one, two, all or none of the guarantees (subject to some rules). If money in a player contract is protected for skill, cap AND injury, that money is fully guaranteed at signing and will be paid to the player. If money is only guaranteed for one or two of the three protections, that money is only partially guaranteed.

Here is a quick breakdown of each guarantee category:

Skill guarantee: If a player contract is terminated because, in the team's opinion, he does not have the requisite skill (due to a loss or lack of skills comparable to others on the team at his position), the player will be entitled to any money that is protected by a skill guarantee.

Cap guarantee: If a player contract is terminated so that a team can get under the salary cap, sign a free agent or re-sign one of its current players, the player is entitled to any money that is protected by a cap guarantee.

Injury guarantee: If a player is released but is currently unable to perform football duties (i.e., doesn't pass a physical) as a result of team activities, the player is entitled to any money in his contract protected against injury. An injury-only guarantee is the most common in terms of partially guaranteed money.

 

 

If it that $10 mil is fully guaranteed, we owe it to him. If it isn't, we may not owe it to him. Neither of us has access to his contract so we don't know. Hence why I talk in uncertain terms.

Take a look at the articles from when he signed with us. There were about 3-4 different amounts of guaranteed money that were cited. Because those terms are rarely ever disclosed publicly. So they are all relying on "sources." 

Maybe it is is fully guaranteed, maybe it isn't. IF we do move on from him, the manner in which we do will tell us what the nature of the guarantee was/is.

What part of that says Teddy’s 10M. I’ve never said there aren’t different guarantees. Just that there aren’t injury guarantees in Teddy’s contract. Which there aren’t. Or they would be listed. Along with a date they took effect and how much was guaranteed for injury. Just like Kalil was. Had to be cut the day before the clause hit. If there is a different guarantee, it’s always listed.

Media outlets are referring to the Total years and amounts that ESPN reports. Not the sites that get the correct information afterward. 

[Peon Awesome]

14 hours ago, stbugs said:

Who cares. Our cap hit was $6.25M a year from 2017-2020. He’s a red herring as far as cap hits go. Even we release Teddy, we’ll have have spent $34M on him for a year or $9M more than Kalil. Okung and Short together in 2020 were more than all that we paid to Kalil. We’ve spent so much more the past 3 years to be 17-31. At least Kalil’s one year as a starter we went 11-5 and had a chance to beat NO even with Ganope missing a 20 yarder and no WRs letting multiple TDs go through their hands.

I hate to say I get frustrated when people act like all’s great with the cap now that Kalil is done, but I do. We spent $25M total on the guy. We spent probably 8x that on FAs to try and win the past 3 years (thanks Marty) and failed miserably. It’s like trying to blame Moore for Teddy not having 30TDs this year. Our cap problems aren’t remotely due to Kalil. Not even close.

You're right that Kalil's contract wasn't exactly a devastating albatross that crippled our cap. The anger of it when directed at that specific aspect is overblown. But it was awful nonetheless. Most of our other bad contracts are for players that got paid more than they're worth or got injured but when healthy, made our team better. Shaq is a good example. Spending $13 million on a coverage linebacker not named Luke Kuechly is not the best use of that money. But he's still a plus on defense over whoever else might step in to replace him.

Meanwhile we were significantly better signing a guy off his couch to replace Kalil than when he played. Kalil was so laughably bad, we probably would've been better lining up Manhertz in that spot and foregone a LT altogether than trot him out there. You mention we were 11-5 his 1st year. That makes it worse. Imagine if we had a competent LT or used his $12 million that year to sign someone at another position of need. We were a play from beating the Saints. Hell we probably win a couple more games and host them rather than go on the road. Do we make a run at another super bowl? And the next year, do we have someone more competent to stop TJ Watt from nearly ending Cam's career? Whatever way you look at that, that Kalil contract was abysmal. It may have averaged out to $6.25 million per year over 4 years, but he was only on the team for 2 of those years and the 2 he was there, we were a better team without him.

[Anybodyhome]

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Teddy was a far better QB than Kalil was a tackle.

May I rephrase that for you?

Teddy was a less worse QB than Kalil was a tackle.

[shaqattaq]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

Agreed, but man we could have been way more than fine if we just said hey, let’s truly blow this year instead of trying to compete when we know we can’t and Teddy isn’t going to beat Brees and Brady.

If we draft well, it will cure a lot of ills, but wouldn’t it be nice to have the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick, 3rd and 4th comps to just throw at a couple more IOL and $100M to just throw at FAs in 2022?

Let’s hope we have our poo together now. 

True. I think we'd have been better off just to roll with Allen and let the chips fall where they may.

[TheSpecialJuan]

[Basbear]

8 hours ago, The Natural said:

It still pisses me off at just how bad Gettleman neglected protecting out franchise QB. Nate Chandler? Byron Bell? Matt Kalil? Ughhhh.

What about Norwell, Turner, and D Williams?? Each either where 1st team ALL-pro or 2nd during their time here.

ALso resigned R Kalil, could have let him walk or trade him. So for about 3 full season the OL was Norwell-Kalil-Turner-Williams. Kalil also made 1/2nd ALL-pro.

Before MKalil, he signed Michael Oher. He was still "young" at 28 and had a bad concussion that ended his career. So again tired to replace LT... Drove his van to the casino and place 55 million on 75, it busted hard, but he tired.

SO all you people that make that statement, need to re-think it. Plus did I mention he had negative cap space for the first 2 full years, and barley stable year 3?