Dane Brugler of the Athletic Mock: Panthers trade up to 3 for Fields

[pantherclaw]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The " win every game no matter what" crowd isn't interested in logic. There's rarely logic in claiming moral high ground in sports fandom.

There is no logic in intentionally losing a game. 

[Varking]

3 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

There is no logic in intentionally losing a game. 

The logic is higher draft picks so better chances to get your guys. One win could be the difference between drafting a DT in Brown or a stud QB in Herbert. One win could be the difference between drafting one of the big 4 QBs in this class and having to trade up and lose more picks just to get a QB because we won a literal meaningless game. 

[Moo Daeng]

6 minutes ago, Varking said:

The logic is higher draft picks so better chances to get your guys. One win could be the difference between drafting a DT in Brown or a stud QB in Herbert. One win could be the difference between drafting one of the big 4 QBs in this class and having to trade up and lose more picks just to get a QB because we won a literal meaningless game. 

This concept only exists on message boards. How many coaches and players need to tell us this?

[TheSpecialJuan]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:39 AM, PhillyB said:

god that is a lot to pay for jumping five spots.

hell yeah it is 

[Varking]

6 hours ago, Moo Daeng said:

This concept only exists on message boards. How many coaches and players need to tell us this?

Was just stating what the logic is. 

[SCO96]

There is no way I'd ever give up that much draft captital to move up 5 spots and take a QB who isn't the clear cut best QB in his draft class.

Secondly, I would never take a QB out of Ohio State in the first round. I'm still waiting for someome to name an accomplished QB out of that school in the last 50 years. I would wish Fields well and hope to be proven wrong since I'm a Panther fan, but would not leave draft night feeling with very low expectations if the Panthers made such a move.

Edited February 14, 2021 by SCO96

[raleigh-panther]

Stating the obvious, there  are many considerations with salary cap for at least three years out, two of (this one and 2022) which may decline due to covid restrictions, and next year’s draft position as well

2022 has Howell and yet another Oregon Qb on the horizon   

my belief is the Panthers will only trade up for the second best Qb, not the third or fourth   They know they will never pry Lawrence away from Urban  I almost feel sorry for Trevor TBH 

I believe if they can’t move up for that 2nd qb or they don’t feel that qb is worth it, they will get someone like Darnold who will not hurt salary cap or draft position in future years.   No harm,  no foul  if he sucks, cut him, still on his rookie contract 

they just do not have the cap space or a ready made team to attract a veteran or the capital for much else. 

they will take Darnold. They will give up a second for him. They will then trade that 8 pick for more picks   

I know what Tepper wants. We all do. Unlike MLB, the salary cap changes things 
 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by raleigh-panther

[Icege]

7 hours ago, Varking said:

The logic is higher draft picks so better chances to get your guys. One win could be the difference between drafting a DT in Brown or a stud QB in Herbert. One win could be the difference between drafting one of the big 4 QBs in this class and having to trade up and lose more picks just to get a QB because we won a literal meaningless game. 

The idea that "We should have lost this game for draft positioning" is flawed in that literally any other W could have been an L to get to the position that folks are crying about. Along with the clear and present issues that comes from throwing a game (increased risk to players, loss of the locker room, potential fines, etc), there's also the flawed logic in that "your guy" is going to be "the guy." Case in point, Jeff Okudah at #3 last year. The year prior, @LinvilleGorge made a big to do in nearly every thread about how the team had played their way out of an elite pass rusher because beating the Saints took the team from the #9 pick to #16. Yet, here we are with Brian Burns.

There can certainly be different philosophies in how to approach the draft, but the guy that thought Herbert was Gabbert 2.0, that the Panthers couldn't draft an elite pass rusher at #16 where they took Burns, that the new defense this year kept the team in a majority of the games, or that CMC's best position in the NFL would be slot WR is probably not the best person to try and talk up their views as being "logical."

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Icege said:

The idea that "We should have lost this game for draft positioning" is flawed in that literally any other W could have been an L to get to the position that folks are crying about. Along with the clear and present issues that comes from throwing a game (increased risk to players, loss of the locker room, potential fines, etc), there's also the flawed logic in that "your guy" is going to be "the guy." Case in point, Jeff Okudah at #3 last year. The year prior, @LinvilleGorge made a big to do in nearly every thread about how the team had played their way out of an elite pass rusher because beating the Saints took the team from the #9 pick to #16. Yet, here we are with Brian Burns.

There can certainly be different philosophies in how to approach the draft, but the guy that thought Herbert was Gabbert 2.0, that the Panthers couldn't draft an elite pass rusher at #16 where they took Burns, that the new defense this year kept the team in a majority of the games, or that CMC's best position in the NFL would be slot WR is probably not the best person to try and talk up their views as being "logical."

The draft has been and always will be a complete crap shoot to a certain degree. But there's a reason why the draft pick value chart exists and why the points are skewed heavily toward the top of the draft. The higher you are in the draft order, the better your odds of landing a difference maker. This isn't a difficult concept.

[Icege]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The draft has been and always will be a complete crap shoot to a certain degree. But there's a reason why the draft pick value chart exists and why the points are skewed heavily toward the top of the draft. The higher you are in the draft order, the better your odds of landing a difference maker. This isn't a difficult concept.

Nobody is arguing against the higher the draft pick, the better chance you have of selecting the player you want.

We're saying that the idea that an NFL team should lose a game in pursuit of that draft positioning to bring in an unknown factor and hope that they take to the environment is incredibly risky at best, self-destructive at worst.

I would think that this isn't a difficult concept either, but like with Brian Burns, here we are.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Icege

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Icege said:

Nobody is arguing against the higher the draft pick, the better chance you have of selecting the player you want.

We're saying that the idea that an NFL team should lose a game in pursuit of that draft positioning to bring in an unknown factor and hope that they take to the environment is incredibly risky at best, self-destructive at worst.

I would think that this isn't a difficult concept either, but like with Brian Burns, here we are.

Having a pick higher in the draft order isn't an unknown factor in terms of draft capital.

[Icege]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Having a pick higher in the draft order isn't an unknown factor in terms of draft capital.

That sounds a lot like saying because you get to pick the first lottery ticket at the gas station that you've got a better chance of hitting the jackpot.

Unless you're somehow aware of how the player's career will end up?

[Varking]

11 minutes ago, Icege said:

The idea that "We should have lost this game for draft positioning" is flawed in that literally any other W could have been an L to get to the position that folks are crying about. Along with the clear and present issues that comes from throwing a game (increased risk to players, loss of the locker room, potential fines, etc), there's also the flawed logic in that "your guy" is going to be "the guy." Case in point, Jeff Okudah at #3 last year. The year prior, @LinvilleGorge made a big to do in nearly every thread about how the team had played their way out of an elite pass rusher because beating the Saints took the team from the #9 pick to #16. Yet, here we are with Brian Burns.

There can certainly be different philosophies in how to approach the draft, but the guy that thought Herbert was Gabbert 2.0, that the Panthers couldn't draft an elite pass rusher at #16 where they took Burns, that the new defense this year kept the team in a majority of the games, or that CMC's best position in the NFL would be slot WR is probably not the best person to try and talk up their views as being "logical."

It’s about having more chances to get “your guy”. There’s no guarantee that he’s going to be a success but again… we were one pick away from Herbert and we heavily scouted him. We would be set at the QB position and could focus elsewhere. I also believe Okudah is going to be fine. He played this season on a horrible defense and when he played he was hurt. Imagine this year if 4 QBs go in the top of the draft before we pick. Then two years in a row we would have lost out on potential franchise QBs off a late season win. 
 

It’s pointless to argue about fans wanting C or Z player in the draft. Do you believe Brown was the Panthers guy this past draft? No. They settled for him because other guys like Burrow, Herbert and Chase Young were off the board. We need our franchise quarterback. We have sucked consistently for far too long. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Icege said:

That sounds a lot like saying because you get to pick the first lottery ticket at the gas station that you've got a better chance of hitting the jackpot.

Unless you're somehow aware of how the player's career will end up?

You're not understanding the concept. Draft pick value is real. That is real team building capital. You can make the picks, you can trade the picks, more draft capital means more options. What you're arguing is like saying that you'd just as well rather have less money in the bank because there's a chance you'll piss it all away anyway so why bother? It's just not an intelligent argument to make.