Article: Matt Rhule: “Very urgent” to have QB who makes plays in crucial situations

[pantherclaw]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

the cost to trade up to #2 is crazy though.  Going off the "chart" at least.   Our entire 2021 draft wouldn't even be enough to move up to #2 from #8. 

 

Which is exactly why it won't happen. 

[Cary Kollins]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

That's not knocking Cam, he's just simply pointing out a stat.

That said, I don't put nearly as much emphasis on "4th quarter comebacks" nor wins when it come to QB evaluation as many do.

I mean, it’s literally a direct knock on Cam. “As great as Cam could be he was worse than Delhomme at fourth quarter comebacks”. That’s almost word for word Voth’s tweet. It is a dumb stat, and just a stat, but it feels like a holdover from the same old BS narratives folks have had about Cam since he came into the league.

[Cary Kollins]

1 hour ago, t96 said:

The stats don't really back this up... There is plenty of blame to go around, Cam included.

what stats besides the total number of game winning drives?

How about Rivera’s W/L record in games decided by a touchdown or less between 2011-2015? That seems much more relevant as the quarterback can’t control a defense allowing the other team to score.

[thefuzz]

19 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

I mean, it’s literally a direct knock on Cam. “As great as Cam could be he was worse than Delhomme at fourth quarter comebacks”. That’s almost word for word Voth’s tweet. It is a dumb stat, and just a stat, but it feels like a holdover from the same old BS narratives folks have had about Cam since he came into the league.

He is pointing out something that anyone could look up, and was responding to a question...that's not a knock.

I agree it's a dumb stat.

[ForJimmy]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

my biggest fear.

We don't make a move for Watson/Stafford.

Then, and some mocks show it, Trevor, Fields, Wilson and Lance all go before #8. 

Matt Rhule drafts Mac at #8 after getting to know him at the Senior Bowl so well. 

This might be the worst case scenario. I would hope we draft a LT then try a project QB like Newman in the 2nd. However Jones could still be a solid starter in the NFL. He is just a big unknown to me...

[Malt Liquor]

Whatever we got to do we have to get a franchise Quarterback. I don't care if we have to get Dak Prescott. As a die hard Panthers fan I do not want to see Teddy Bridgewater as a starter for Carolina..Ever again 

[OldhamA]

3 hours ago, SOJA said:

I think we end up trading up to #2 or #3 overall when it's all said and done. 

If we're trading up to #2 / #3 overall for a QB, I'd rather just trade #8 for Stafford. 

[Khyber53]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

"The thing you see about Mac right off the bat, he’s a gamer. He’s got a great presence about him. He loves the moment, loves the competition. So there’s not much doubt that he has that quarterback swagger that you can feel when you’re on the field."

- Rhule talking about Mac Jones (The Athletic)

I've been calling Mac Jones for a while here. I still think he's the real prize out of this crop. Just not sure if he'll make it to the second round or if we'll trade back in the first and make a run at him then.

Edit to clarify: Not to trade back INTO the first to get him, but to trade back from 8 to like 15 in hopes he's still on the board. Get our guy and pick up some extra capital.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Khyber53

[OldhamA]

3 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

 Bingo 

mine as well 

I was wrong about Justin Herbert and that’s who we should have moved up one spot to get and while I do not believe Jones is close to Herbert in any category, he us going to be the picK if things fall as predicted 

the panthers May trade back two or three doors to get him and get more picks 

Rhule scares me, after all Teddy would not have been here if Rhule didn’t approve and then there us the Dwayne Haskins futures offer 

Why does Rhule scare you?

He listened to Bill Parcells and Joe Brady and brought in Bridgewater (a former Pro Bowler, former 1st round pick) on a two year deal that didn't break the bank.

I don't think Bridgewater has been near as bad as the groupthink makes him out to be, but clearly he's not the guy you build a team around. That said, I do think something has gone on behind the scenes and Rhule has soured on him somewhat. 

Haskins went to the Steelers - they seem to know what they're doing.

 

As for Jones, I get Brady vibes from him. He won't be the pick at #8, but after Rhule's comments this week about him and Fitterer's comments last week about pick value I wouldn't be surprised if we trade down into the 20s and take him - acquiring additional picks along the way. 

[Shotgun]

I like Rhule but Teddy was a huge mistake. Hopefully he realizes his error and fixes it quickly.

[catnip]

I don't think we can afford Watson or Stafford while keeping Teddy .  Moving up in the draft will cost too much capital .  We should stand pat and take best player available if a QB is not there .  We could also trade down a few spots and still get a quality player and an extra pick . We then take Newman in the second or with the extra pic. 

 

[t96]

1 hour ago, Cary Kollins said:

what stats besides the total number of game winning drives?

How about Rivera’s W/L record in games decided by a touchdown or less between 2011-2015? That seems much more relevant as the quarterback can’t control a defense allowing the other team to score.

His passer rating by game situation:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00/splits/

Quote

Split	Value	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	1D	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Ctch%	Y/Tgt
Game Situation	Leading, < 2 min to go	1	2	1	50.00	11	0	1	0	66.7	0	0	5.5	5.50	78	-45	-0.6	0	1	0	0	0		0	0
	Leading, < 4 min to go	16	25	9	64.00	223	1	14	1	89.3	1	-5	8.9	7.92	101	49	.5	1	8	0	0	0		0	0
	Tied, < 2 min to go	11	19	8	57.89	99	0	5	0	72.0	1	-2	5.2	5.21	9	43	4.8	0	4	0	0	0		0	0
	Tied, < 4 min to go	18	32	14	56.25	180	1	11	1	69.8	1	-2	5.6	4.84	11	105	9.5	0	5	0	0	0		0	0
	Trailing, < 2 min to go	113	208	95	54.33	1382	9	66	6	77.4	16	-140	6.6	6.21	24	104	4.3	3	10	1	1	16	16.0	0	1	100.0%	16.0
	Trailing, < 4 min to go	189	337	148	56.08	2383	10	115	10	75.8	25	-199	7.1	6.33	39	158	4.1	5	16	1	1	16	16.0	0	1	100.0%	16.0

Other than when leading with < 4 min to go, those numbers are not great. There are others that are worse for sure (check out Brees when tied with < 2 or 4 min to go, though his numbers when trailing are considerably better...) but plenty of others are much better than Cam in these situations. Outside of 2015 and some of 2013 (not many opportunities that year), Cam wasn't all that clutch here. He wasn't bad compared to others around the league, and yes Ron being an ass of a HC and our D collapsing in some of those games contributed, but the narrative that Cam was great in these situations just isn't supported by the stats (or even the eye test many of those years...).

[OldhamA]

8 minutes ago, catnip said:

I don't think we can afford Watson or Stafford while keeping Teddy .  Moving up in the draft will cost too much capital .  We should stand pat and take best player available if a QB is not there .  We could also trade down a few spots and still get a quality player and an extra pick . We then take Newman in the second or with the extra pic. 

 

There's no way they're taking Newman.

They've got a close look at him this week and he's been poor.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

With Teddy is in Rhule's doghouse:

If one of the top 4 QBs is still there at #8 gotta believe the Panthers won't hesitate to draft them.

Otherwise, trading back and getting Jones would seem like the next best bet.

Panthers need an infusion of talent at numerous positions, that makes giving up multiple high draft picks and future pro bowlers for Watson an unlikely scenario.