Interesting change in draft philosophy

[Madwolf]

3 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I agree with most of what you're saying. The trick is really finding guys that mesh well with the personality of the coaches and other players, along with like you said, the players having enough of their own inner drive to be successful. That "fire in your gut". 

One of the reasons I think Andy Reid is a fantastic coach is, he always seems to get the best out his players. Guys like Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt are massive talents with questionable character that could have destroyed a different team. Marvin Lewis used to be the guy that "rehabilitated" troubled players. It'll be interesting to see how Rhule and Fitterer build the team, because we know Rhule can squeeze extra out of his players, now the onus is on them to find guys to fit the system.

I honestly think they're a good QB from being a playoff team as it stands, so I hope they draft someone or go all in for Watson. Stafford would be a disaster and keeping Bridgewater without any competition would cause a revolt from the fanbase, so I think everyone is on the same page lol

As long as we DRAFT a QB, and not trade for one (not named Watson) I'm good. 

[Madwolf]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Basically how I feel about Jones.

He went from Zero to Hero on draft boards after winning the NC game.

He certainly looked sharp, and made a lot of good throws, but his mobility is a huge concern, and what he can do outside of that talent around him.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Madwolf said:

Basically how I feel about Jones.

He went from Zero to Hero on draft boards after winning the NC game.

He certainly looked sharp, and made a lot of good throws, but his mobility is a huge concern, and what he can do outside of that talent around him.

He's accurate. He's smart. But his arm is average and his mobility is below average. Sounds like Tom Brady, right? Well, the problem is that there's a long list of NFL busts that fit that description and not many Tom Bradys. NFL prototypes exist for a reason.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I agree with most of what you're saying. The trick is really finding guys that mesh well with the personality of the coaches and other players, along with like you said, the players having enough of their own inner drive to be successful. That "fire in your gut". 

One of the reasons I think Andy Reid is a fantastic coach is, he always seems to get the best out his players. Guys like Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt are massive talents with questionable character that could have destroyed a different team. Marvin Lewis used to be the guy that "rehabilitated" troubled players. It'll be interesting to see how Rhule and Fitterer build the team, because we know Rhule can squeeze extra out of his players, now the onus is on them to find guys to fit the system.

I honestly think they're a good QB from being a playoff team as it stands, so I hope they draft someone or go all in for Watson. Stafford would be a disaster and keeping Bridgewater without any competition would cause a revolt from the fanbase, so I think everyone is on the same page lol

I think that the extra edge is taking guys that don't necessarily have that "fire in their gut" and making them believe they can be that. Some of them need a nudge to light it. So I agree that coaching is a big factor. You have to manage all these personalities on the players that aren't necessarily elite or haven't become elite or will never be elite. 

I think with a good QB we could be a playoff team. It's a challenging division at the moment because we have the least talented roster but a couple of more good drafts and we might be able to turn that around. I don't agree that Stafford would be a disaster, although I don't know that he has enough left in the tank for when this team is built enough to be a Super Bowl caliber team. 

The bottom line is, Teddy ain't it. The people thinking otherwise are just being delusional. I get the mentality of "build the line/team before you get the QB" but you can do both at the same time. It's also ignoring the fundamental fact that elite QB's don't grow on trees. If you have a chance to get one(Watson) or one you believe may be elite(Lawrence/Wilson/etc) you go and fuging get that guy. Otherwise you are going to be wasting a lot of well built teams with an average QB who can't get over the hump(LA Rams, San Francisco 49ers, etc). 

[AU-panther]

31 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Going back to Fitt's opinion on draft pick values and that 16-18 cutoff for elite talent...

Does that make it more likely for us to move up in the 1st or trade 1sts for Watson? He said they aren't looking for quick fixes but are looking for a quick turnaround. I presume that means he doesn't anticipate a great chance at those future 1sts meeting that 16-18 cutoff.

Good point.  Its pretty clear that he would view this years 1st a lot higher than future 1st.  Very easy to believe we could be a middle of the road or better team next year.

This might be our best chance to really move up and take advantage of the really high pick we have this year.  A lot of years its not practical to move up to pick 2 or 3 even if you want.  Having pick 8 gives us that chance.

All of this is really going to be decided by how they grade Wilson, Fields, and Lance.  If you like Wilson a lot, more than the other two guys, you trade up.  If you think they are close you stay put and keep your picks, or you just trade up to 5.  As fan we tend to get this opinion that one of the is a lot better than the others, I would think Wilson would be that for most people.  In reality there is a chance they might fall in love with Lance.  You have to remember the Seahawks fell in love with Wilson.

Speaking of Wilson, the Seahawks do seem to do a good job of understand the draft as a whole and what other teams do.  We always seemed in a hurry to get "our guy".  I'm hoping that is different now.

 

 

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

He is ultimately largely right about their being an elite tier as far as each draft. That does exist in most drafts, hence the dramatic statistical differences in career success for the first round guys versus other rounds. The numbers do actually back that up.

And, yeah, everything in the NFL is close once you get past the most elite talent on the field. That is where you have to make sure you are doing what is necessary to identify elite attributes in some of those lower tier guys that might have more warts than a shiny, surefire top 10 talent. 

I will give him the benefit of the doubt, at the moment. I want to see what moves he makes this offseason and in the draft before I get too concerned.  

Yes there is an elite tier and then the tiers after. I agree about the first part but I'm just not excited to lump the rest into similar category. Hell, some of our franchise's best players were not in the elite tier he described. My biggest concern is that they have done much better later in drafts and not done too well at all in the early part of the draft in the area we are discussing. Huge hit on Metcalf and a bunch of no thank yous. 

I'm not giving anything lol but I like some of what I have heard and some raises concerns and questions. I am not against him for sure. I am just talking and wrapping my head around the new bits we are learning about. Just like I wouldn't expect a roster to be perfect, I don't expect Friters to be perfect. Ok, what are his strengths and weaknesses? How does that project and effect us next year? That's how I am looking at it. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's accurate. He's smart. But his arm is average and his mobility is below average. Sounds like Tom Brady, right? Well, the problem is that there's a long list of NFL busts that fit that description and not many Tom Bradys. NFL prototypes exist for a reason.

Fitterer mentioned arm strength as something he values in a quarterback.

[Madwolf]

There's certainly guys that are elite outside of the top 16-18, but I also think there are guys who play elite because they're put in the correct system and situations, and can play above their head.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fitterer mentioned arm strength as something he values in a quarterback.

Yeah, Fitts basically outlined the prototypical NFL QB. Well, there's a few of those guys in this draft.

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Yes there is an elite tier and then the tiers after. I agree about the first part but I'm just not excited to lump the rest into similar category. Hell, some of our franchise's best players were not in the elite tier he described. My biggest concern is that they have done much better later in drafts and not done too well at all in the early part of the draft in the area we are discussing. Huge hit on Metcalf and a bunch of no thank yous. 

I'm not giving anything lol but I like some of what I have heard and some raises concerns and questions. I am not against him for sure. I am just talking and wrapping my head around the new bits we are learning about. Just like I wouldn't expect a roster to be perfect, I don't expect Friters to be perfect. Ok, what are his strengths and weaknesses? How does that project and effect us next year? That's how I am looking at it. 

 

He's also the guy that talked about how important those second and third day picks are, as well. So be sure to counter that with his statement today.

I am just glad we finally have a new GM. That we can all agree on.

[Madwolf]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, Fitts basically outlined the prototypical NFL QB. Well, there's a few of those guys in this draft.

I feel like it was a nod to Wilson and Lance, either of which I would be okay with.

[AU-panther]

Also the further you get down the draft the bigger the tiers become. 

It might go something like:

1 > 2-7 > 8-15 > 16 -36 > 37-70> 71-120

When multiple players are left on your board in the same tier is when you really start to consider trading down.

A huge questions for us is how the QBs are going to be ranked.  Is one of them clearly in another tier than the other two?

Also you get a lot more variance among how teams have said players rated.  One teams 5th rounder can be another teams 7th rounder.  I always find it amusing when fans talk about their team reaching late in the draft.  At that point its almost impossible to really decide what a reach is.

 

[Mr. Scot]

I'll say this.

I know people have talked about how the Seahawks got Russell Wilson, and extrapolated that to say that you could get a franchise quarterback without necessarily using a high pick.

While that's technically true, it's also extremely hard, and I think Fitterer knows this. Guys like Wilson and Brady are lightning in a bottle, the exception rather than the norm.

I don't believe for one moment that Fitterer's going to try to duplicate that here, nor should he.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[trueblade]

25 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 

I think Jones is likely going to basically be a less athletic version of Teddy at the NFL level. The physical limitations will show up when his backups aren't better than his opponents' starters.

I think that's why it was a great choice for Jones to go to the Senior Bowl.