Jonathan Jones thinks Deshaun to Carolina could happen.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

What people don't' realize is that there isn't a huge difference in the top 20 RBs or so.  Most of the difference with yardage totals is a product of usage, not ability.  CMC averaged 4.8 yards a carry last year, Antonio Gibson (rookie for Washington) averaged 4.7.  CMC got more carries so his yardage totals look like more.

A good WR will get more usage because he will get open more.  A RB doesn't have to get open for a handoff, their usage is a product of the play calling. 

People like to argue if RBs are important, it not that they aren't important, its that it is easier to replace their production than some other positions.

 

100% correct and that change really happened years ago when the switch to these spread offenses and the move away from these bell cow backs started. Look at KC whose best back was a rookie in CEH.

But when people hear us talk about "positional value" or the fact that RB's are less valuable in the modern NFL, they get defensive and ignore the facts or trends in the NFL.

It has NOTHING to do with CMC the player. He's arguably the best RB in the NFL. He's DEFINITELY the best dual threat RB in the NFL. I love watching him. I am glad he is a Panther.

But I also was very early against signing him to a top 5 RB contract and I still am. For the exact reasons of the positional value and the short shelf life of the position(and he spent most of 2020 injured). 

People talk about the longevity of guys like Frank Gore or Adrian Peterson. But those guys also have been on multiple teams bouncing around the league as journeymen. That is the perfect example of why it doesn't make sense to tie up that kind of money in a position that you could sign a former top 10 drafted RB in Leonard Fournette for fuging NICKELS. Or draft a guy like Edwards-Helaire and pay him such a small salary.

 

[CarolinaSunday]

Just now, BrianS said:

Now, can you imagine being the owner in Houston telling your fanbase, yea, we're getting rid of JJ Watt and DeShaun Watson?  Brutal.

Well, we got rid of Cam and Greg in the same off-season, and also lost Luke...

[Ship]

2 hours ago, BurnNChinn said:

Yeah trade ur star rb for Watson and then Watson has to do it all like Cam did. Yeah makes a whole lot of damn sense. Glad none of these people own the team.

Watson will have 2-3 maybe 4 thousand yard playmakers??? When did Cam have that? Never. An RB isn’t as valuable as a QB.

[t96]

22 minutes ago, top dawg said:

A whole lot of speculation and assumption in this thread. 

How about we wait and see what happens, because anything can. Deshaun Watson has a modicum of control in this situation, and for those treating CMC's contract like it's just the most terrible thing, I'm just shaking my head because I believe you've lost perspective. Furthermore, the Panthers don't even have to be in consideration, much less CMC.

Of course it's all speculation Dawg! It's January and we're talking about teams not in the playoffs... What else would you expect?

 

As far as McCaffrey goes, I don't think we should be looking to trade him by any means. He's an extremely important piece here. BUT if we really want to get Watson (I'm not sold on this yet, I think the best option for this team is to draft a QB this year) and the Texans want a young impact player along with a couple 1st round picks (which is decent value) then we definitely need to consider moving McC. The impact players we have that could be of actual significant value to the Texans are McCaffrey, Moore, Burns and maybe Brown. McCaffrey's contract isn't bad but Brown and Burns still being on rookie deals along with their positional value I think makes me rather keep them than McCaffrey. Then it's between him and Moore which I think is a tossup. Both are elite offensive weapons. I can see arguments on either side of that discussion.

[BrianS]

1 minute ago, CarolinaSunday said:

Well, we got rid of Cam and Greg in the same off-season, and also lost Luke...

Not even close to the same thing.

Cam has always been a polarizing figure in the fan base, for better or for worse.  Greg was CLEARLY on a downhill slide.  Luke was unavoidable.

You can look back a year later and say both Cam and Luke were let go for football reasons.  You think that will be true of Watson or Watt?  Unlikely.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, BrianS said:

This little nugget right here isn't getting enough attention, and it applies to both parties involved assuming that the trade involves players on both sides, which it likely will.  Pretty sure that if you trade a player, you have to eat the remainder of the signing bonus immediately.  That's 20 million for DeShaun, and Houston is already 19 million over the cap.  The easiest thing for them right now is to cut JJ Watt.  Brandin Cooks also looks precarious.

Now, can you imagine being the owner in Houston telling your fanbase, yea, we're getting rid of JJ Watt and DeShaun Watson?  Brutal.

 

If you designate him as a pre-June 1st trade on OTC  he generates a TON of dead cap but it is spaced out over 4 years. Post-June 1st makes it a much more tolerable cap hit, so I am guessing that there is a way to transfer some of that to the next team. I am not that up on the new CBA and how that all works out. 

But the cap ramifications are a HUGE deal in this whole situation. This isn't the MLB where anything goes.

[CarolinaSunday]

Just now, BrianS said:

Not even close to the same thing.

Cam has always been a polarizing figure in the fan base, for better or for worse.  Greg was CLEARLY on a downhill slide.  Luke was unavoidable.

You can look back a year later and say both Cam and Luke were let go for football reasons.  You think that will be true of Watson or Watt?  Unlikely.

Not Watson, clearly, but Watt is not in his prime anymore and is injury plagued. You can absolutely call that a football decision. 

For many die-hard Panthers fans, losing all three in the same off-season was a gut punch, no matter how much time they each have/had left in their career.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I share those concerns but he is still our best offensive player until this past season becomes a larger trend. Moore is a budding star but he's also a guy that has a lot of unreached potential whereas CMC is basically already the best at his position in the league. 

Let's hope our fears about the crazy mileage he racked up are unfounded. That would be pretty destructive to our franchise future to have to jettison him and eat the cap hit that would require. 

I think having the 3 injuries after force feeding him the ball in 2019 (for what I will never understand) is pretty telling.  Faulk and Chris Johnson had a few more years after their best seasons that they were productive but man when it hits it hits hard and fast

[CRA]

what would I be willing for us to give up to get Watson? 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I think having the 3 injuries after force feeding him the ball in 2019 (for what I will never understand) is pretty telling.  Faulk and Chris Johnson had a few more years after their best seasons that they were productive but man when it hits it hits hard and fast

Yeah, if he does end up being injury prone from now one......the level of hatred for Ron and Hurney will just grow and grow.

[BrianS]

24 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I think having the 3 injuries after force feeding him the ball in 2019 (for what I will never understand) is pretty telling.  Faulk and Chris Johnson had a few more years after their best seasons that they were productive but man when it hits it hits hard and fast

My hope for CMC is that we start using him more as a slot receiver.  It puts the ball in his hands, which is something we want, but gets him less banged up.  I understand CMC is *capable* of running between the tackles, but is that really the best use of his talents?  Let Mike Davis or someone else take that punishment.  I want to see CMC play for years to come, he's too much fun to watch.

Not sure if we'll do that, but anything we can do to lower the punishment he takes and extend his career should be investigated and considered.

[panthers55]

How many player for player trades ever happen? Most times it is shedding a salary and vet to get picks and younger cheaper guys. Watson won't be the only bet QB available. They might want someone like Bridgewater if they want a vet for experience but they will want draft picks for the most part.

[rippadonn]

3 hours ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I would send CMC on his merry way in a second.

Franchise QB >>>>>>>>>>Franchise RB

Obvious.

[BurnNChinn]

5 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

Franchise QB >>>>>>>>>>Franchise RB

Obvious.

How about not happening >>>>>>>>>happening 

I would say that is obvious

Edited January 19, 2021 by BurnNChinn