Rapoport: Panthers expected to be in the mix for Watson.

[PantherKyle]

3 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

So let me get this straight, you want to basically swap situations with the Texans?  I mean if you give up what it's going to take acquire Watson then you will be in the same boat they are now and they will be in ours.  Think about that for a minute.  

No. We have Matt Rhule. We have building blocks on defense with Burns, chinn, and brown. We also have dj Moore and the best rb in the league. 
us with Watson is diff than the Texans. Well worth 3 1sts.

[Mage]

3 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

So let me get this straight, you want to basically swap situations with the Texans?  I mean if you give up what it's going to take acquire Watson then you will be in the same boat they are now and they will be in ours.  Think about that for a minute.  

You can always build a better team though (see: Colts after they had a couple of down seasons, then Luck stayed healthy and they blossomed... unfortunately for them, he soon retired).  You rarely are going to find a QB as good as Deshaun Watson at his age.  

Texans situation is different than ours too.  Texans have Watson, but don't have a 1st round pick.  Panthers have a 1st round pick, but don't have a QB.  Assuming we take a QB in this draft, trading the 1st round pick this year ultimately means nothing.  That should make us more willing to trade away our pick next year.  On top of that, we're in a better long-term cap position than Houston too.

Regardless, Texans have an elite franchise QB.  If they keep him, then at the end of the day, they aren't in a terrible spot - they just need to get better around him.  They don't even need to build a great team.  Just a solid team.  That is what an elite QB provides you.  And that is what he would provide us for the next 5-10 years if we pull the trade off.

I get the hesitation.  But trust me.  An elite QB is worth it.  And for that reason, is why any trade the Texans make, they will be the losers.  It's hard to when a trade when you are the one giving away an elite QB.  The only way they win is they find another one, and that is just too damn hard.

[CarolinaSunday]

For what it's worth (and I have no idea how connected he really is to the situation because I don't normally follow him on Twitter), Lance Zierlein reported that a reconciliation with the Texans is unlikely, even if they hire Eric Bieniemy (this point was more implied than said outright).

He also said in the comments that Watson is not going to the Jets. 

 

[Mage]

1 minute ago, CarolinaSunday said:

For what it's worth (and I have no idea how connected he really is to the situation because I don't normally follow him on Twitter), Lance Zierlein reported that a reconciliation with the Texans is unlikely, even if they hire Eric Bieniemy (this point was more implied than said outright).

He also said in the comments that Watson is not going to the Jets. 

 

I've been a fan of the NFL a long time.  NBA too, but to a lesser extent.  And here is one thing I have learned: when there is smoke (like actual serious smoke like this), there is almost ALWAYS fire.  

And there has been just way too much smoke here.  The only thing that makes this different is I'm not sure what the Texans do.  Trading a known elite QB in his prime is literally unheard of in the NFL.  And because the NFLPA is dumb as hell, Watson has little to no leverage.  The only thing he can do is not show up, but he'll be costing himself money and depending on the Texans to say "enough is enough" and give in to trading him.  But if I'm the Texans, as much as I hate it for the player, I'm not trading Watson until I'm absolutely forced to (and really, it'd take Watson blowing up the locker-room in a Harden-esque fashion for them to be forced to).

Definitely gonna be an interesting offseason.  I'm convinced Watson is done with the Texans as far as his respect for the organization.  And if he played any other position, he'd be gone by the new league year.  But I just don't see why Houston trades him.  You are VERY unlikely to win a trade where you give away Deshaun Watson.  

[SizzleBuzz]

13 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That NFL teams rip up and throw away every year at their convenience.

Only if the specifics of the signed  contract allow them to do so.  

I get it that a lot of folks think the NFL has the upper hand on the players in terms of contractual specifics but it doesn't change the fact that every contract signed by a player is a legally binding document for both sides.  

I keep seeing a lot of "he doesn't have to play" comments as it goes to DeShaun...

...every NFL player retains that right at all times --- but exercising that right simultaneously stops all compensation and a litany of other associated benefits.

It is not something to be taken lightly...

 

[Peon Awesome]

13 hours ago, Toomers said:

So two 1’s and a 2nd? And please take our mistake who has a 10M guaranteed base salary? That’s a dial tone 10 seconds into the phone call. 

No I agree. I don't think Houston takes that at all. I'm saying that's what I'd be comfortable giving up so that we still have enough draft capital to build around Watson and make sure we don't turn into the 2020 Texans and have to give up a top 5 2021 pick to them. Watson is worth more than my offer. Just wouldn't necessarily make sense to me to give up more knowing how much we're missing on this team (entire O line, multiple defensive starters, etc).

[AU-panther]

People need to get realistic with what its going to take to trade for him.

RG3 was three 1st and a 2nd

Mack was two 1st, and 3rd, and a 6th

Jamal Adams was two 1st, a 3rd, and a player, Jets sent a 4th with Adams

A safety got 2 first round picks, think about that.

We are talking, by some accounts, a top-3 QB in the league just entering his prime.

Some of these suggestions on what we should offer are laughable at best.  

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

58 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Only if the specifics of the signed  contract allow them to do so.  

I get it that a lot of folks think the NFL has the upper hand on the players in terms of contractual specifics but it doesn't change the fact that every contract signed by a player is a legally binding document for both sides.  

I keep seeing a lot of "he doesn't have to play" comments as it goes to DeShaun...

...every NFL player retains that right at all times --- but exercising that right simultaneously stops all compensation and a litany of other associated benefits.

It is not something to be taken lightly...

 

What are the Texans going to do, jail him?

Everything is outlined by the contract and the CBA. Watson has done nothing to violate his contract.

[Soul Rebel]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but do you think Cam's previous experience here would be a subject discussed between him and Watson?

I always felt like Cam was a big brother to Watson going back to their time in Cam's QB program. I wonder if Deshaun was pondering his options, if Cam would speak negatively about Tepper/Rhule and how his departure was handled. 

I feel like Deshaun and Cam have a tight relationship and Watson would really listen to Cam on the biggest decision of the young QBs life.

[AU-panther]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What are the Texans going to do, jail him?

Everything is outlined by the contract and the CBA. Watson has done nothing to violate his contract.

I know if a player retires before their contract is over, the team can go after part of the signing bonus.  If he flat refuses to play I'm sure they probably could do the same.

Also if a player retires early I don't think they get future guaranteed salary.  Guaranteed salary is for injury or performance, if a player retires he most likely forfeits that.  If he refuses to play that can probably be viewed similar to being retired.  Also when a player retires that team still owns that players rights for their duration of the contract they were under when they did retire.

His best course of action, from a financial perspective,  would probably be to show up to and then fake a injury, but that could also get messy.  The fact he is already talked about not playing that would probably not hold as well in a court.

Billionaires don't hand out contracts that open themselves up to being screwed over.  He can totally refuse to play, but it will cost him considerable money if it happens for an extended time.

 

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

james harden already provided the blueprint. watson can make the organization miserable while still getting paid. if he wants out he will get what he wants or things will get even worse for houston.

[AU-panther]

10 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

james harden already provided the blueprint. watson can make the organization miserable while still getting paid. if he wants out he will get what he wants or things will get even worse for houston.

The nets also gave up 4 1st round picks and 3 pick swaps.  If the players had all of the leverage then the team they went to wouldn't have had to give up so much.

The players have tremendous leverage, I'm not disputing that, but its not absolute.  If Watson truly had the power that some of you think he would go to the exact team he wanted and that team wouldn't have to give up much to get him.  When this is all said and done I'm pretty confident the team that gets Watson will pay a hefty price.

 

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

10 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

The nets also gave up 4 1st round picks and 3 pick swaps.  If the players had all of the leverage then the team they went to wouldn't have had to give up so much.

that’s not that big of a return relative to the value of harden (especially the pick swaps lol houston may very well never exercise those options) but beyond that i don’t think anyone is arguing that if watson only wanted to go to one team that the texans would just accept like a 5th round pick for him. they will get assets but those assets won’t compare to his value and unless they’re getting nothing but ridiculous lowball offers they will be hurting themselves if they keep him out of spite. 5 teams bidding against each other and 20 teams bidding against each other is a very big difference and will be reflected in houston’s return. and that’s not even getting into the franchise’s historic willingness to eat poo on trades. honestly wouldn’t be surprised if two firsts and mccaffrey got it done given what we know about that organization. and that’s a deal you immediately accept. 

there’s no real precedent for watson’s trade value in this era. with his ntc i think it’s pretty obvious that whoever gets him will win the trade on pure value. obviously houston will think they’re winning if they turn a player who doesn’t want to be there into future assets but value wise houston is going to take a massive loss. huge disparity in leverage here.

[AU-panther]

25 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

that’s not that big of a return relative to the value of harden (especially the pick swaps lol houston may very well never exercise those options) but beyond that i don’t think anyone is arguing that if watson only wanted to go to one team that the texans would just accept like a 5th round pick for him. they will get assets but those assets won’t compare to his value and unless they’re getting nothing but ridiculous lowball offers they will be hurting themselves if they keep him out of spite. 5 teams bidding against each other and 20 teams bidding against each other is a very big difference and will be reflected in houston’s return. and that’s not even getting into the franchise’s historic willingness to eat poo on trades. honestly wouldn’t be surprised if two firsts and mccaffrey got it done given what we know about that organization. and that’s a deal you immediately accept. 

there’s no real precedent for watson’s trade value in this era. with his ntc i think it’s pretty obvious that whoever gets him will win the trade on pure value. obviously houston will think they’re winning if they turn a player who doesn’t want to be there into future assets but value wise houston is going to take a massive loss. huge disparity in leverage here.

so what do you think he gets traded for?