Where do the Panthers stand in re-building? Davos Observes

[davos]

2 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

You are correct - I had you confused with notorious troll here Jamos. My apologies. 
 

 

Ha no worries.  I posted under beechlander/beach for the bulk of my huddling with the annual swimsuit edition mock drafts.  I kind of float in the background haha.

[Basbear]

51 minutes ago, woahfraze said:

Those guys are not good.  But almost every NFL roster has players at at least a couple positions that shouldn't be starting. There simply aren't enough good players to go around.  We don't NEED a great TE or a 4th WR to be playoff team.  Nor do we need studs at every offensive line position. We can make due with a couple of the lesser important positions being manned by guys that aren't that good. And the same goes for every other NFL team.  We are not two dozen players away from competing.  We're maybe 8 to 10.  Unfortunately, one of those that we need plays the most important position (QB).

Panthers had great teams in 2015+, much so where Dave made a couple trades up.  10 rookies could not make those teams. There was no room, panthers are a shell of that. Just because you make the roster on a team devoid of talents, doesnt mean youre good enough. I laid out the numbers and some names where the team needs to improve. TEs, CBs, OLmen, and LBs are in awful shape. If you take away Shaq and Djack, some of the guys left would not even make other teams practice squads. 

Not looking/wanting all-pros at every spot, mainly upgrades in order to reach the playoffs. Im not satisfied with the depth, nor half the starters even with knowing there arent enough players to go around. Panthers should add 7 draft picks, 3 UDFAs, and 2 2020 practice squaders. That cuts my 22-29 number in half. Now just need 10-17 more, then you start ALL over again during the 2021 season. Dont let Rhule and staff fool you, they out-coached nearly all teams this year. Get another 10 picks/UDFAs/PSer in 2022 and they maybe playoffs bound. I also believe Rhules' style/wants/needs are all nearly focused on young players/fresh college players. Hes demanding and many vets are past that. 

[KidSmitty89]

6 hours ago, davos said:

I'm seeing many different opinions in the Watson threads about where our team is right now.  Unreal turnover and situation last offseason.  So, I figured to break it down with who is firmly "in-place" on our roster.  Guys that are part of the longer term picture/or at least here a bit longer, highlighting the stars.  With Hurney finally gone and a new GM in the house thought this could be cool:

Owner: Dave Tepper

Not much to say.  He bought the team a few years ago and he's finally got his own curated staff in place.  We've got the wealthiest owner in the league that wants to build a perennial powerhouse. 

Coach+: Matt Rhule

Matt is a really promising head coach and he looked quite competent for a guy (and staff) with such little NFL experience. I'm not sure he'd be a good coordinator in the NFL but he has the head coaching gene.  I'm interested to see who we groom to eventually take over for Snow which could happen in the next few years.  We do have a former DC in Al Holocomb and I thought Jason Simmons did wonders with a super inexperienced DB group.  Offense wise, Brady is getting flack but it was year one for him.  If he wants a HC future, he'll need to learn and show it next year with a new QB.

GM: Scott Fitterer

He has plenty of experience and the agreed upon guy between Rhule & Tepper.  These three are the new combo and we FINALLY feel beyond the JR-Hurney-Fox/Rivera days. 

--

TEAM:

QB: None

This is the obvious hole. TB ain't diddly

RB: McCaffrey

Rock star.  Interested to see how he looks post-injury/essentially a year off.  Maybe back with a fury/MVP level season.

WR: DJ Moore, Robby Anderson

I think we're fine even if we don't re-sign Samuel. It could make sense to grab a WR mid to late rounds

OL: Moton, Paradis, Daley, Larsen

A patchwork group with one stable member (Moton). One stable backup (Larsen).  Paradis will probably be here another year.  I'd prefer we re-sign John Miller.  He's a good guard but we need to draft younger studs and sign FAs to this group.

TE: None

For Ian--When it's not just Rivera but the new crew limiting his snaps, I think there's an issue in his development.  Brady doesn't use TEs a ton so it's not critical.  Would LOVE a balanced, capable blocking/receiving guy like maybe a Jonnu Smith.

DL: Burns, Brown, YGM, Obada, Kerr, Haynes

This could be a really awesome DL next year if we find a DT/DE I.E. Fletched Cox/Early Short type.  CLOSE

LB: Shaq, Carter Jr.

We need work here.  Shaq is really the epitome of good.  He's not bad, not great.  Just a solid guy that is unfortunately not a star level. Carter is good to have on the roster.

DBs: Jackson, Pride, Chinn, Burris, Elder

This is all of a sudden looking okay.  We still need to get a CB1 but Pride was super promising in year 1.  I'm actually quite interested to see his growth in year 2.  Could be a really solid find IMO.  Chinn is amazing and we noticeably got better when Burris returned from his midseason injury.  Also, Corn Elder was thought to be discarded and forgotten and he played quite well during the season.  Thomas-Oliver was however bad and Jackson should really be in the slot. Heck, even Sam Franklin looked good.  I applaud Jason Simmons.

--

So, overall, I don't think we're as far off as it seems.  You may calling mid-rebuild, but after seeing how we played with crap at QB, I don't think we're far from being a playoff squad.

Also--Our needs are pretty darn clear and it doesn't seem out of this world to address in one offseason.

Needs (5):

• We without a doubt need offensive linemen (minimum 4 starter/backups via FA/Draft). Just get new big men in here. 
• A star Quarterback, and we have some potential targets this year (Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Nate Sudfeld)
• A MLB to lead the defense alongside Chinn, Burns & Brown.
• A CB1.  Honestly, the guys here fine good minus Boston and all pretty young.
• A new multi-tech DT after we move on from KK.

I'd say we've got a lot more in place once you take a look.  The needs, particularly QB & MLB are huge make or brakes for a franchise so that is why we're not far, but this offseason is going to be so damn important and define our future.

My questions for the thread:

How far off are we? And who's your best guess at QB & LB in 2021 for us?

 

 

Great explanations 

 

6 hours ago, davos said:

I'm seeing many different opinions in the Watson threads about where our team is right now.  Unreal turnover and situation last offseason.  So, I figured to break it down with who is firmly "in-place" on our roster.  Guys that are part of the longer term picture/or at least here a bit longer, highlighting the stars.  With Hurney finally gone and a new GM in the house thought this could be cool:

Owner: Dave Tepper

Not much to say.  He bought the team a few years ago and he's finally got his own curated staff in place.  We've got the wealthiest owner in the league that wants to build a perennial powerhouse. 

Coach+: Matt Rhule

Matt is a really promising head coach and he looked quite competent for a guy (and staff) with such little NFL experience. I'm not sure he'd be a good coordinator in the NFL but he has the head coaching gene.  I'm interested to see who we groom to eventually take over for Snow which could happen in the next few years.  We do have a former DC in Al Holocomb and I thought Jason Simmons did wonders with a super inexperienced DB group.  Offense wise, Brady is getting flack but it was year one for him.  If he wants a HC future, he'll need to learn and show it next year with a new QB.

GM: Scott Fitterer

He has plenty of experience and the agreed upon guy between Rhule & Tepper.  These three are the new combo and we FINALLY feel beyond the JR-Hurney-Fox/Rivera days. 

--

TEAM:

QB: None

This is the obvious hole. TB ain't diddly

RB: McCaffrey

Rock star.  Interested to see how he looks post-injury/essentially a year off.  Maybe back with a fury/MVP level season.

WR: DJ Moore, Robby Anderson

I think we're fine even if we don't re-sign Samuel. It could make sense to grab a WR mid to late rounds

OL: Moton, Paradis, Daley, Larsen

A patchwork group with one stable member (Moton). One stable backup (Larsen).  Paradis will probably be here another year.  I'd prefer we re-sign John Miller.  He's a good guard but we need to draft younger studs and sign FAs to this group.

TE: None

For Ian--When it's not just Rivera but the new crew limiting his snaps, I think there's an issue in his development.  Brady doesn't use TEs a ton so it's not critical.  Would LOVE a balanced, capable blocking/receiving guy like maybe a Jonnu Smith.

DL: Burns, Brown, YGM, Obada, Kerr, Haynes

This could be a really awesome DL next year if we find a DT/DE I.E. Fletched Cox/Early Short type.  CLOSE

LB: Shaq, Carter Jr.

We need work here.  Shaq is really the epitome of good.  He's not bad, not great.  Just a solid guy that is unfortunately not a star level. Carter is good to have on the roster.

DBs: Jackson, Pride, Chinn, Burris, Elder

This is all of a sudden looking okay.  We still need to get a CB1 but Pride was super promising in year 1.  I'm actually quite interested to see his growth in year 2.  Could be a really solid find IMO.  Chinn is amazing and we noticeably got better when Burris returned from his midseason injury.  Also, Corn Elder was thought to be discarded and forgotten and he played quite well during the season.  Thomas-Oliver was however bad and Jackson should really be in the slot. Heck, even Sam Franklin looked good.  I applaud Jason Simmons.

--

So, overall, I don't think we're as far off as it seems.  You may calling mid-rebuild, but after seeing how we played with crap at QB, I don't think we're far from being a playoff squad.

Also--Our needs are pretty darn clear and it doesn't seem out of this world to address in one offseason.

Needs (5):

• We without a doubt need offensive linemen (minimum 4 starter/backups via FA/Draft). Just get new big men in here. 
• A star Quarterback, and we have some potential targets this year (Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Nate Sudfeld)
• A MLB to lead the defense alongside Chinn, Burns & Brown.
• A CB1.  Honestly, the guys here fine good minus Boston and all pretty young.
• A new multi-tech DT after we move on from KK.

I'd say we've got a lot more in place once you take a look.  The needs, particularly QB & MLB are huge make or brakes for a franchise so that is why we're not far, but this offseason is going to be so damn important and define our future.

My questions for the thread:

How far off are we? And who's your best guess at QB & LB in 2021 for us?

 

 

Great breakdown of our organization and players. If Rhule can hit on the next QB. I have faith he can get the best out of the players and build a competitive roster going forward.

[davos]

27 minutes ago, TSLA said:

Wealthiest owner in the NFL with a 17-31 record.

You are way too easy to spot on your respawns Chuck.  It's just sad.

[Mr. Scot]

6 hours ago, Zod said:

Quality post. Many good points.

Agreed.

[top dawg]

It could be wishful thinking on my part, but I'm thinking that Christian Miller and Omar Bayless will be a legit part of the things going forward in ancillary roles. In particular, Bayless was getting some praise for limited work in camp, and not only by Rhule.

[thefuzz]

We are starting to look like a football team, but our biggest needs are some of the very hardest holes to fill in the NFL.

O Line, Quarterback, Corner....then MLB.

Hopefully we address the QB situation this season, I don't know that we will be in a position to do so next off season, and offensive line is something that we have ignored for far too long.

Fix those issues, and we may get a winning record out of this group.

[CanadianCat]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

It could be wishful thinking on my part, but I'm thinking that Christian Miller and Omar Bayless will be a legit part of the things going forward in ancillary roles. In particular, Bayless was getting some praise for limited work in camp, and not only by Rhule.

I was also thinking this. Easy to forget him but I think he will also be a factor. 

[Khyber53]

Really great work OP.

Here's my take on what we should do in the draft to finish off this rebuild:

-- Round One: Someone is going to fall back. I'd love to see Penei Sewell make it back to us, but I am seriously doubting he makes it past the Bengals. So, barring one of the big two QBs, I say you make a pick that will piss the fanbase off and snag Micah Parsons if he is there... just like we did with Luke with the #9 pick back in 2012 (and people were flabbergasted then quickly cheering for him). You don't lose with this pick and you build on Brown, Chinn and Burns as your long-term base.

-- Round Two: Snag Mac Jones, the QB from Alabama. Something tells me he will get passed up as he doesn't fit the trendy on-brand QB mold. A bit doughy and slow-looking, the guy just wins games. And that, in the end, is what we need. 

-- Rounds Three and On: OT, TE, C, G. Grab as many big, breathing bodies as you can for the line. Get some youth in there and build.

[Mister]

DESHAUN WATSON GOING TO MAKE THIS OFFENSE NUMBER ONE MAN