DJ Moore graded out as the 24th best WR according to PFF

[AU-panther]

13 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Yeah, I remember when you were dogging CMC out before we drafted him. We went back and forth over CMC and Dalvin Cook. You didn't know more than the professionals then.

Dalvin is pretty good, and in our system with the same usage his numbers would probably be just as good if not better.  Also we would had him a lot later in the draft and used our 1st pick on something else.

 

1 hour ago, GoobyPls said:

The problem it’s not even close to perfect, they have 23 WR ahead of Moore, and I’m willing to bet it has more to do with QB play than anything else. These guys are not watching the film more than once like most panthers fan are. 
 

Like I said above outside of route running what is Adams better at? I can go play for play and I’m willing to be Moore tape is way more impressive, and Adams can’t replicate those Moore plays.

I get what you are saying, I really do.  I actually agree that Moore is a lot closer to Adams than what a lot around here think.

I'm a huge of PFF, but like I said earlier QB play will have influence on what a WR can achieve, but PFF is the one grading system that fans have that does try to factor that in.  All these other systems are stat based, so yes, PFF is the one that actually can give Moore a higher grade for that play where he has to come back and make a great catch because of the poor throw from his QB. 

Going play by play is exactly what they do, you just don't like the results they come up with even though you haven't took the time to go play by play.

You have yet to name a better grading system, you admitted yourself you haven't watched all of Adams plays, and I doubt you have watched the other 90 wrs.  

 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

Dalvin is pretty good, and in our system with the same usage his numbers would probably be just as good if not better.  Also we would had him a lot later in the draft and used our 1st pick on something else.

 

I don't know about that. CMC was the better back in college, and so far is the better back in the pros. Cook is almost as good, but not quite!

[AU-panther]

4 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't know about that. CMC was the better back in college, and so far is the better back in the pros. Cook is almost as good, but not quite!

Cook averages more per carry and reception.  People confuse usage with ability.

 

 

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Cook averages more per carry and reception.  People confuse usage with ability.

 

 

Well not me. I'd aready looked it up. That's why I said "not quite." Go to Pro Football Reference and look at their averages per touch. CMC is at 5.8 and Cook is at 5.4. That's fairly significant stats-wise.

[AU-panther]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Well not me. I'd aready looked it up. That's why I said "not quite." Go to Pro Football Reference and look at their averages per touch. CMC is at 5.8 and Cook is at 5.4. That's fairly significant stats-wise.

I'm looking at rushing and receiving separately.

touch includes both and CMC has more receptions which inflates the overall number.

 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

I'm looking at rushing and receiving separately.

touch includes both and CMC has more receptions which inflates the overall number.

 

That's one way to look at it.

[AU-panther]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

That's one way to look at it.

That's the only way to look at it.

You give them both the same number of carries and receptions over the course of a year, and based on history Dalvin would have higher totals in both.

Don't get me wrong, both players are very good, two of the best at their positions, but to think one is a lot better than the other is absurd.

 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

That's the only way to look at it.

You give them both the same number of carries and receptions over the course of a year, and based on history Dalvin would have higher totals in both.

Don't get me wrong, both players are very good, two of the best at their positions, but to think one is a lot better than the other is absurd.

 

You know there's way more to it than that, but I wasn't the one dogging out CMC before he came here, and I didn't dog out Cook either!

[GoobyPls]

25 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Dalvin is pretty good, and in our system with the same usage his numbers would probably be just as good if not better.  Also we would had him a lot later in the draft and used our 1st pick on something else.

 

I get what you are saying, I really do.  I actually agree that Moore is a lot closer to Adams than what a lot around here think.

I'm a huge of PFF, but like I said earlier QB play will have influence on what a WR can achieve, but PFF is the one grading system that fans have that does try to factor that in.  All these other systems are stat based, so yes, PFF is the one that actually can give Moore a higher grade for that play where he has to come back and make a great catch because of the poor throw from his QB. 

Going play by play is exactly what they do, you just don't like the results they come up with even though you haven't took the time to go play by play.

You have yet to name a better grading system, you admitted yourself you haven't watched all of Adams plays, and I doubt you have watched the other 90 wrs.  

 

They say they go play by play, but you haven’t provided any evidence behind that. I said give me that specific grade for that still of Moore of what would have been a 70 yard TD, you don’t have that grade cause pff doesn’t have that grade. I said give me the individual grades of those two passes, one a perfect throw by Rodgers another by underthrown ball by Teddy, again you didn’t show me it, why? Cause either they don’t have it or the grading system is so skewed that Adams is getting a better grade for doing less with a better QB.

 

Your telling me to give you a better grading system, I’m asking you show me the grades for those plays. 
 

Ive asked you for the third time what does Adams outside of route running do better Moore? Show me on film. Show me how Adams would be more productive with Bridgewater as his QB than Moore would if Rodgers was his.

I don’t need to watch 90 WR to know who is better than who, I can tell you right now DJ is better than 99% of WR in the league. Just like when Smith was being held back (even though Delhomme is better than Teddy) DJ is being held back.

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, GoobyPls said:

They say they go play by play, but you haven’t provided any evidence behind that. I said give me that specific grade for that still of Moore of what would have been a 70 yard TD, you don’t have that grade cause pff doesn’t have that grade. I said give me the individual grades of those two passes, one a perfect throw by Rodgers another by underthrown ball by Teddy, again you didn’t show me it, why? Cause either they don’t have it or the grading system is so skewed that Adams is getting a better grade for doing less with a better QB.

 

Your telling me to give you a better grading system, I’m asking you show me the grades for those plays. 
 

Ive asked you for the third time what does Adams outside of route running do better Moore? Show me on film. Show me how Adams would be more productive with Bridgewater as his QB than Moore would if Rodgers was his.

I don’t need to watch 90 WR to know who is better than who, I can tell you right now DJ is better than 99% of WR in the league. Just like when Smith was being held back (even though Delhomme is better than Teddy) DJ is being held back.

Why do you keep cherry picking one play? I doubt anyone but an employee of PFF has that kind of information. No one on the Huddle has that type of info unless maybe they work for PFF or possibly the Panthers. 

[GoobyPls]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Yeah, I remember when you were dogging CMC out before we drafted him. We went back and forth over CMC and Dalvin Cook. You didn't know more than the professionals then.

You do know the only difference between Cook and Mccaffrey has been health and touches. Cook has more 100 yard rushing games while playing less games and getting less touches. Mccaffrey had Norv who force fed him to the point of exhaustion.

 

Im against drafting RB in the first much more in the top 10. So yes I was for Cook in the second round

[GoobyPls]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Why do you keep cherry picking one play? I doubt anyone but an employee of PFF has that kind of information. No one on the Huddle has that type of info unless maybe they work for PFF or possibly the Panthers. 

Show me for that game then since DJ only ended with 18 yards I want to see if he ended the same if he would have got that 70 yard TD

[top dawg]

Just now, GoobyPls said:

You do know the only difference between Cook and Mccaffrey has been health and touches. Cook has more 100 yard rushing games while playing less games and getting less touches. Mccaffrey had Norv who force fed him to the point of exhaustion.

 

Im against drafting RB in the first much more in the top 10. So yes I was for Cook in the second round

You already know that CMC is valued for his rushing, but even more so for his yards from scrimmage. Three-down backs that are prolific runners and receivers are all the rage. 

Neither Shula or Turner did CMC any favors. Some do believe that you can use a back too much, and thereby cause diminishing returns.

[AU-panther]

2 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

They say they go play by play, but you haven’t provided any evidence behind that. I said give me that specific grade for that still of Moore of what would have been a 70 yard TD, you don’t have that grade cause pff doesn’t have that grade. I said give me the individual grades of those two passes, one a perfect throw by Rodgers another by underthrown ball by Teddy, again you didn’t show me it, why? Cause either they don’t have it or the grading system is so skewed that Adams is getting a better grade for doing less with a better QB.

 

Your telling me to give you a better grading system, I’m asking you show me the grades for those plays. 
 

Ive asked you for the third time what does Adams outside of route running do better Moore? Show me on film. Show me how Adams would be more productive with Bridgewater as his QB than Moore would if Rodgers was his.

I don’t need to watch 90 WR to know who is better than who, I can tell you right now DJ is better than 99% of WR in the league. Just like when Smith was being held back (even though Delhomme is better than Teddy) DJ is being held back.

PFF has that grade, they grade every play, you should take time to understand how they work, whether or not they give out that information that is a different question.

I never said Adams was better, all I'm saying is he graded higher than Moore did on all of his plays last year based on the PFF grading system which does the best job of anything we have for grading all of the players in the league.  I haven't took the time to watch each play of both and neither have you.

I also understand how their system works and because of that I do realize that QB play will have some bearing on the grade and I can factor that in when looking at the list, but their system does try to account for QB play better than any other grading system we have.  So yes, Moore could have actually received a higher grade for that catch of his opposed to the one Adams has.  So in reality they are actually trying to accomplish the one thing you keep harping on with their grading system.  

Here again it would benefit you greatly to take time to understand how they work.