Let's talk about Darnold

[Ivan Knight-Jordan]

The Jets are a terrible organization when it comes to handling talent. They seldom retain it when the players hit their stride or develop it when it’s needing to be harnessed. I would take a flyer on him if they are offering him on draft day for a 3rd or less. Only time will tell. Lawrence is guaranteed 1st, but 2nd and beyond is an unknown. Will the Jets give up on Darnold this quickly, like the Cardinals did with Rosen? Will Atlanta start their rebuild? Will Detroit move on from Stafford? Will we move up any in the draft after Sunday or go down further? Would Lance Trask or Jones be worth it as the 3rd or 4th QB off the board in the first? So many questions leading up until February and finding out more about these guys. Like I said in a previous comment this is the most significant decision in Panthers history. We have new ownership that we still cant fully grasp their vision of the team. We have gotten glimpses of how the coaching regime will be but still a lot of uncertainty. We do not have a GM yet. I for one am very excited because of how well we looked game in and game out no matter the result. There is a bright future in store for us as long as we stay the course and in the next week months we will know a lot more of what direction that will be.

[Jaxel]

23 minutes ago, BrianS said:

I think the difference between Tannehill and Darnold is that prior to Gase coming to Miami, Tannehill was beginning to show signs of being a very good QB.  The record didn't really reflect very well what he was doing.  When Gase arrived in Miami, Tannehill declined rapidly in two years (after four years of rather consistent improvement) and in typical Gase / pundit / fan fashion Tannehill took a lot of heat for that.

Tannehill was a known "good apple" before Gase.  Honestly, that should have been a warning sign to the Jets when they were hiring Gase, but the hype train got going and they hired him anyway.

That's not Darnold.  Darnold hasn't really shown anything remotely close to the level of a Tannehill yet.  As bad as the Jets are, even prior to Gase, the Dolphins situation wasn't all that much better.  Yet to anyone who pays attention, it was clear that Tannehill had something, something along the lines of "There's a player there, I think we can bring out the best in him".  I don't know anyone who is willing to beat the drum for Darnold.  He just hasn't shown anything.  With Darnold, it's more like "Well, maybe there is a player there we haven't seen".

As I said earlier, I might give up some conditional picks to get him, but only with heavy conditions on them, and nothing under any circumstances above a 3rd.

What? Darnold played his whole career under the franchise killer that is Gase, and he did show promise his first season, until curse of Gase started to take effect. He missed his whole second with mono and this is just his third season.

Saying that Tannehill looked like a player until Gase came around just reinforces my argument.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

Look no further than our very own Robbie Anderson to see that Gase is clueless. I think Darnold could thrive in the right situation.

[AU-panther]

4 hours ago, MHS831 said:

If you read other message boards (I do once in a while) Here is the latest (This may be common knowledge to you all, but I was hearing some of this in detail for the first time):

Detroit fans and maybe the new staff is ready to move Stafford while he has some value---I see Patriot blue all over that one--but I could see him in Indianapolis as well, should he opt for another domed stadium.

The Raiders are not happy with Carr, even though his numbers are pretty good--sounds like Bridgewater--this game is not about the QB padding personal stats--wins and losses.  In Carolina, 0-8 on potential game winning drives is all you need to know about Bridgewater--who cares if he completes 70% of his passes if he can't move the team when it matters?

The Broncos are looking to move on from Lock.  This is a potential backup, but one that has starting experience who could develop.

The Jets might keep Darnold and grab Sewell, trade back, or a stud WR.  A win tomorrow could solidify this decision--a late-season, 3-game win streak. (Jets have 2nd pick in the draft)

The Colts are probably going to lose Rivers.  Broadcasting options (I don't understand the appeal) and comments he is making sure make it sound as if his next loss with be the end of his career.  Expect Indy to be aggressive finding his replacement.  For that reason, cheer for them in the playoffs.

The Falcons will be hiring a new coach.  While Ryan's contract is a bear, he still has a few years and could produce on an established team.  I am not sure a new coach would build around a 36-year old game manager with a bad defense. I expect them to go with Ryan in 2021 and focus 100% on building the defense, but they could take a future QB to groom at any time--draft or free agency.  (The Falcons currently hold the 4th pick in the draft)

The Washington Football Team probably has the worst QB situation in the NFL with Alex Smith (age, injury history), Allen (consistency, experience, skill), and Heinicke (possibly their best QB right now).  They WILL be aggressive in the draft or free agency, which makes me nervous if they are in range to move up.  So if they win today, we may not improve our draft spot, but we could distance ourselves from the threat of being leapfrogged by Ron.  If anyone knows the importance of riding a QB into job security, it is RR.  Without one, he is exposed and he knows it.  Ron will do all he can to get a QB.  If he/they hire Marty, Hurney may have inside information to help them target players he knows we may fancy.

The Eagles (who will be treating the game Sunday like a preseason game--evaluating bench talent, according to the boards) probably have to dump Wentz somehow, but I do not know how.  They have Hertz, but a team like Washington, Indy, or New England may be good options. (The Eagles currently hold the 6th pick in the draft.  I think they are prime trading partners for a team looking to move up)

The Bears were going to be in the QB market, but with Trubiski's resurgence, who knows what they are thinking.  I expect a second-level QB to groom.  Maybe a Trask if he falls into the third.  Fans in the Windy City really do not think Trubiski is the answer--never really did.

The Steelers are interestingly in the mix based on the late-season collapse and Big Ben (will be 39) has been hit a few times in the league as injuries are starting to show up in his game a bit.  Ben will count $40 million against the Steelers' cap next season, the last year of his deal.  About half could be saved if he is released.  What to do? 

The Vikings are not in love with Cousins by any means.  Fans don't seem to like the big contract the team gave an average QB.  He will count $31m against the cap this season, and it is all guaranteed.  He can be cut in 2022, however, and it will still cost them $10m in dead money.  Maybe a late round QB project like the kid from Cincinnati.

The 49ers are not real happy with Garappolo and they can get out that deal with minimal damage at any time.  Currently, JG makes about $26m, but they could release him and only have $2m (est) go to dead cap, saving $24m.  I think they will be players in the QB market, but not sure how. (The niners currently have the 15th pick in the draft)

That is 13 teams--including Carolina--who might be in the QB market.

 

 

Patriots also? That is 14 teams.

QBs are going to go early and often this year in the draft.  People need to look at not only the teams in front of us but also behind us in the draft order.  Very good chance we are going to have to trade up to a QB this year.

[Moo Daeng]

19 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

What? Darnold played his whole career under the franchise killer that is Gase, and he did show promise his first season, until curse of Gase started to take effect. He missed his whole second with mono and this is just his third season.

Saying that Tannehill looked like a player until Gase came around just reinforces my argument.

He didn't miss his whole second season, he started 13 games in 2019.

Also Darnold hasnt been with Gase his whole career. His ffirst season was under Todd Bowles with Jeremy Bates as OC.

[MHS831]

Some guy on ESPN said that if the Browns do not beat the Steelers following their loss to the Jets week 16, they are not going to offer Baker Mayfield a fifth-year option---making him a free agent.

 

[MHS831]

10 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Patriots also? That is 14 teams.

QBs are going to go early and often this year in the draft.  People need to look at not only the teams in front of us but also behind us in the draft order.  Very good chance we are going to have to trade up to a QB this year.

How did I forget the Pats?  Too much Huddle pressure.

[MHS831]

12 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Patriots also? That is 14 teams.

QBs are going to go early and often this year in the draft.  People need to look at not only the teams in front of us but also behind us in the draft order.  Very good chance we are going to have to trade up to a QB this year.

Yes.  Miami Cincy and Atlanta could trade out and get a lot for their spots.  We need to think about getting to the 4th or 5th overall pick.  HEAR ME, RHULE? 

[Moo Daeng]

9 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Some guy on ESPN said that if the Browns do not beat the Steelers following their loss to the Jets week 16, they are not going to offer Baker Mayfield a fifth-year option---making him a free agent.

 

But that would be after next season. This is his 3rd season right?

Well that and these options are always decided a year in advance 

[Sgt Schultz]

11 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Some guy on ESPN said that if the Browns do not beat the Steelers following their loss to the Jets week 16, they are not going to offer Baker Mayfield a fifth-year option---making him a free agent.

 

I'm torn between being amazed by this (and thinking the guy on ESPN is full of crap) and then the realization that they are the Browns for a reason.

[Moo Daeng]

The Browns would still have all next season to work on or decide on an extension 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I'm torn between being amazed by this (and thinking the guy on ESPN is full of crap) and then the realization that they are the Browns for a reason.

I thought, "You are full of crap," but it was stated.  It does put the Browns in a difficult situation--it was a dumb pick anyway,  They HATE Pittsburgh almost as much as they hate Baltimore in Cleveland.  To lose to the Jets and then to Pittsburgh to be eliminated from the playoffs---then extend him with a fifth year on his contract.....Interesting point, but I do not buy it.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=30632707

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Moo Daeng said:

The Browns would still have all next season to work on or decide on an extension 

I agree--do not see it. 

Here is the link: http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=30632707

[BrianS]

20 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

What? Darnold played his whole career under the franchise killer that is Gase, and he did show promise his first season, until curse of Gase started to take effect. He missed his whole second with mono and this is just his third season.

Saying that Tannehill looked like a player until Gase came around just reinforces my argument.

Darnold was drafted in 2018, and played under Todd Bowles his rookie season, where he looked like a rookie.  He was 31st in completion percentage that year (57.7), 23rd in yards, 24th in TD's, 24th in TD %, 2nd in INT's and 4th in INT%.

In 2019, Darnold spent his first year under Gase and *improved*.  This is the year he had mono, and he missed a grand total of three games.  Oh, and, he got "better" under Gase.  He made it up to 25th in completion percentage (at 61.9), 25th in yards, 24th in TD's, 19th in TD %, 9th in INT's and 27th in INT%.  Those numbers aren't good, but they show some marginal improvement.  So despite mono and Adam Gase, Darnold marginally improved this year.

This year has been heavy regression from Darnold, in all measurements.  And here's the real problem:  his decision making isn't getting better.  A guy who makes bad decisions isn't the DNA of what Brady / Rhule want in a QB.

Darnold has played actual NFL football and not shown that he can elevate himself or those around him.  Yes, his team is terrible.  Look, I think it's possible there's a player in Darnold.  But I have no actual evidence to support that.  All I can do is speculate that perhaps it's there.  Same as anyone else.  Thus, and in keeping with the thread topic, I wouldn't sacrifice anything of real value to get him here.