Huddle needs to stop crying about draft picks

[theinstrumental]

I see a lot of replies comparing this to the late-season Saints wins under Ron. There's one big difference this year: we knew what we had with Ron those times, and now we're finding out what we have in Rhule. I'd be a lot less encouraged if we'd found a way to lose this game to a Dwayne Haskins-led WFT. A professional coaching staff doesn't allow that. A defense with actual promise--in Burns, Brown, Chinn, et. al--doesn't allow that. It took us out the Wilson sweepstakes. That's too bad. I really don't love any of the other QB prospects. But I'd rather know that the coaching staff is solid than have to worry about whether we'll keep losing games that we shouldn't for the rest of Rhule's tenure. 

[Sgt Schultz]

There is a reason I avoid this forum like the plague on game days, and Monday are only slightly more tolerable.

Here is the Huddle in a nutshell:

Panthers win:  OMG, what a bunch of idiots.  We could have traded our entire draft for Lawrence and had a franchise QB for a decade (or until we got him killed).  Now it will cost us the next three drafts.  How stupid can this franchise be?  I am going to sell all my jerseys and give up watching the NFL.  I’m through.

Panthers lose:  OMG, what a bunch of losers.  We can’t even beat the hapless Football Team.  Bridgewater needs to be released tomorrow, and Rhule should join Hurney on the unemployment line.  What was Snow doing?  Brady is terrible.  These guys could lose to a high school team.

Yesterday the Panthers played against a team that could not have beaten the Jets (may have beaten the Jags on a game ending FG).  I’m not sure what is truer: The Panthers won or the Foreskins lost.  They knew at kickoff that a win locked up the NFCE, and they played like a team who deserved the first overall draft choice.  Had Washington played the way they did yesterday against just about any playoff team, it would have been the annual 52-13 type drubbing a Rivera-coached team gets.  They stunk on offense, led by a QB who looks like he should be completing his degree in journalism (I assume he has not) and going to work for ESPN covering college football.  He was left in by a coach who believes that if something is not working, you do more of it.  Short of TB handing the ball off to a DT and watching him score, there was not much the Panthers were going to do to lose this game.

For us, the only player on offense that had a noteworthy game was Samuel.  Whitehead and Boston had interceptions (how much would you have won betting on that?).  I’m not sure how much uglier it gets!  I’m not taking anything away from what they did.  They played a horrible team and they did what you are supposed to do when playing a horrible team: win.  But this was not exactly a work of art.  It was pretty much exactly what you would expect from a team that has been competitive almost all year by playing over their heads in most positions against a team that, for whatever reason, put their collective heads (especially on offense) where the sun does not shine.

As for not drafting in the top 5, we are currently #9.  I seriously doubt we win Sunday since New Orleans has the #2 seed on the line.  Lawrence is going to be a Jag and the Jets are likely (but not certain) to take a QB.  Houston’s pick belongs to Miami, and neither of them would be taking QBs, anyway.  Sewell is most likely going to be a Dolphin, but could be a Jet.  If the draft were held today, that leaves the Falcons, Bengals, Eagles, Lions, and Giants drafting ahead of us.  Neither the Bengals nor the Eagles are drafting a QB in round one (unless Cincy has been told Burrow is done).  Of the three that are left, it is more likely none of them grab a QB than all three of them.  In other words, the win allowed a bunch of teams who are more likely than not to address needs other than QB to move ahead of us.  What yesterday did was ensure we will not face the dilemma of Sewell vs. a QB not named Lawrence.

I would grant that QBs that are drafted in the first round have a better chance than later, but it is not exclusive.  Where in the first round and why is a crap shoot.  Sometimes the most highly coveted college QBs spent their college careers on juggernauts or playing against largely inferior teams.  Those drafted earliest often wind up on teams who are overall disasters and it kills their careers.  Some are exciting to watch, but not NFL-caliber passers or decision makers.  Mahomes lasted until #10 in a draft when Watson went #12 (and we all know who went #1).  Arguably the best or second-best NFL QB went #24, and we know where Brady went.  Montana was a third round pick.  Marino lasted until pick 27 in a draft when Jim Kelly went #14 (and Todd Blackledge went before both of them).  If your scouting is good enough at recognizing talent and not just stats, they find them.  It has always been that way.  And to top it off, the guy who worried me most in making this kind of decision "is no longer with the company."

Armed with all that, I am not concerned right now.

[45catfan]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

There is a reason I avoid this forum like the plague on game days, and Monday are only slightly more tolerable.

Here is the Huddle in a nutshell:

Panthers win:  OMG, what a bunch of idiots.  We could have traded our entire draft for Lawrence and had a franchise QB for a decade (or until we got him killed).  Now it will cost us the next three drafts.  How stupid can this franchise be?  I am going to sell all my jerseys and give up watching the NFL.  I’m through.

Panthers lose:  OMG, what a bunch of losers.  We can’t even beat the hapless Football Team.  Bridgewater needs to be released tomorrow, and Rhule should join Hurney on the unemployment line.  What was Snow doing?  Brady is terrible.  These guys could lose to a high school team.

Yesterday the Panthers played against a team that could not have beaten the Jets (may have beaten the Jags on a game ending FG).  I’m not sure what is truer: The Panthers won or the Foreskins lost.  They knew at kickoff that a win locked up the NFCE, and they played like a team who deserved the first overall draft choice.  Had Washington played the way they did yesterday against just about any playoff team, it would have been the annual 52-13 type drubbing a Rivera-coached team gets.  They stunk on offense, led by a QB who looks like he should be completing his degree in journalism (I assume he has not) and going to work for ESPN covering college football.  He was left in by a coach who believes that if something is not working, you do more of it.  Short of TB handing the ball off to a DT and watching him score, there was not much the Panthers were going to do to lose this game.

For us, the only player on offense that had a noteworthy game was Samuel.  Whitehead and Boston had interceptions (how much would you have won betting on that?).  I’m not sure how much uglier it gets!  I’m not taking anything away from what they did.  They played a horrible team and they did what you are supposed to do when playing a horrible team: win.  But this was not exactly a work of art.  It was pretty much exactly what you would expect from a team that has been competitive almost all year by playing over their heads in most positions against a team that, for whatever reason, put their collective heads (especially on offense) where the sun does not shine.

As for not drafting in the top 5, we are currently #9.  I seriously doubt we win Sunday since New Orleans has the #2 seed on the line.  Lawrence is going to be a Jag and the Jets are likely (but not certain) to take a QB.  Houston’s pick belongs to Miami, and neither of them would be taking QBs, anyway.  Sewell is most likely going to be a Dolphin, but could be a Jet.  If the draft were held today, that leaves the Falcons, Bengals, Eagles, Lions, and Giants drafting ahead of us.  Neither the Bengals nor the Eagles are drafting a QB in round one (unless Cincy has been told Burrow is done).  Of the three that are left, it is more likely none of them grab a QB than all three of them.  In other words, the win allowed a bunch of teams who are more likely than not to address needs other than QB to move ahead of us.  What yesterday did was ensure we will not face the dilemma of Sewell vs. a QB not named Lawrence.

I would grant that QBs that are drafted in the first round have a better chance than later, but it is not exclusive.  Where in the first round and why is a crap shoot.  Sometimes the most highly coveted college QBs spent their college careers on juggernauts or playing against largely inferior teams.  Those drafted earliest often wind up on teams who are overall disasters and it kills their careers.  Some are exciting to watch, but not NFL-caliber passers or decision makers.  Mahomes lasted until #10 in a draft when Watson went #12 (and we all know who went #1).  Arguably the best or second-best NFL QB went #24, and we know where Brady went.  Montana was a third round pick.  Marino lasted until pick 27 in a draft when Jim Kelly went #14 (and Todd Blackledge went before both of them).  If your scouting is good enough at recognizing talent and not just stats, they find them.  It has always been that way.  And to top it off, the guy who worried me most in making this kind of decision "is no longer with the company."

Armed with all that, I am not concerned right now.

The very reason I typically only post here in the offseason.  I jumped the gun by a few days this year because I was bored this morning and most of the threads are already focusing on the offseason.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, Monrowed said:

I don’t think that anyone expected the players to tank. I believe that folks that wanted to have an opportunity for selecting a QB that was the best behind TL (I am included). It is just basic frustration and dare I say a missed opportunity.

Completely agree with this viewpoint. The better the draft slot the easier it is for the GM/coaches to add the talent they want most. I didn’t expect players to lay down. I also didn’t expect the Redskins to play like poo when they were trying to win the division. Was hoping our young guys played well but still lost. Oh well, hopefully a couple games go our way and we move up more.

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The Colts absolutely tanked for Luck

 

Really? SO did Caldwell and most of the coaches do this knowing they were sacrificing their employment with the organization? Caldwell was fired as soon as the season ended and Pagano hired from the Ravens. The entire staff was replaced along with most starters.

Seems kind of risky to "tank" for a future player knowing you may not be around to coach or play with him.

[BrianS]

The Panthers had absolutely no outcome to that game that was going to make fans happy.

If they lose, we complain that we lost to an epically terrible team.  If we win, we have tanked our draft position.  There was no good outcome!

What a crap position.

Look, I would have "preferred" to lose the game and secure a very high draft pick.  It didn't happen.  Sucks, but we move on.

From our current draft position, I'd say we are very unlikely to get any of the top 3 QB's.  I see at least five teams in front of us who could legit be looking QB:  Jags, Jets, Falcons, Eagles and Lions.  Seems likely we'll be in the BPA position, which is fine since there aren't very many positions where BPA would not help us.  I still see us taking a QB in this draft, the question is where.

[SCO96]

31 minutes ago, BrianS said:

The Panthers had absolutely no outcome to that game that was going to make fans happy.

If they lose, we complain that we lost to an epically terrible team.  If we win, we have tanked our draft position.  There was no good outcome!

What a crap position.

Look, I would have "preferred" to lose the game and secure a very high draft pick.  It didn't happen.  Sucks, but we move on.

From our current draft position, I'd say we are very unlikely to get any of the top 3 QB's.  I see at least five teams in front of us who could legit be looking QB:  Jags, Jets, Falcons, Eagles and Lions.  Seems likely we'll be in the BPA position, which is fine since there aren't very many positions where BPA would not help us.  I still see us taking a QB in this draft, the question is where.

I've been saying this for weeks. The 2021 draft will be a bust if we don't come away with 2 legit starters based on our draft position.

Our secondary has picked off 7 passes this season (two of those came yesterday against one of the worst QB's in the league and was just released today). One player (Donte Jackson) is responsible for 3 three of them  this year. Donte is  the only CB on the roster with an interception in 2020. We have 27 sacks in 2020. One player Brian Burns has exactly 1/3 of them with 9. That averages out to less than 2 per game. We need help in the secondary and the defensive line. It wouldn't hurt if we could find a Dan Morgan, Jon Beason, or Luke Kuechly to man the middle LB position.

Teddy's stat line for 2020 15 TD's/9 INT's over 15 games. That's a weak production line for a 1970's starting quarterback. Some scouts have Trask (FLorida) and/or Matt Jones (Bama)  dropping to the 2nd round. I could see us taking a QB there, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if we waited until the 3rd or 4th round. I really believe a 3rd or 4th rounder coming out of college with a strong arm and gunslinger mentality could throw 20 TD's as a rookie in this offense. I'm sure the INT's would go up as well, but I'd take a 2:1 TD to INT ratio from a rookie. Teddy didn't even do that this year.

And, I'd gladly wait until 2022 to draft a QB if we could get everything else situated by the end the 2021 season.

[Fox007]

5 hours ago, MGH1989 said:

Totally bro. The Chiefs totally should have lost more games in 2017 to have picked Trubisky at 2 instead of Mahomes at 10. If only had they “tanked” and lost more games...

No they would have just drafted Mahommes there lol wtf is this idiocy. The Bears picked Trubisky doesn't mean that's who the Chiefs had as their top prospect.

[mrcompletely11]

28 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

And, I'd gladly wait until 2022 to draft a QB if we could get everything else situated by the end the 2021 season.

So another another wasted year?  Especially with the talent we have on rookie deals?  Nah man we need to draft someone that can potentially start other than teddy.  He has regressed all year and there is no way we can win with him

[Fox007]

3 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

• Kansas City -  Pick 10
• Green Bay - Pick 24
• Pittsburgh - Pick 11
• Buffalo - Pick 7

I think we should be feeling alright with where we are in the draft.....

That's really not disproving the point. The point is now we have to hope the early teams picked the shitty QBs first instead of the good ones. Those teams up there are smart teams with good front offices and the ones who keep picking stupid QBs are bad franchises. IF we have a smart/good front office and we have the top pick we just make the smart play without having to just hope another team picks crappy.

It happens like with Dan Marino going even further back but none of that disproves the point.

[SCO96]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

So another another wasted year?  Especially with the talent we have on rookie deals?  Nah man we need to draft someone that can potentially start other than teddy.  He has regressed all year and there is no way we can win with him

First of all you don't know if any of these guys can start as a rookie. If we miss out on a QB drafted in the top 10 it'll set this franchise back for years. Did any anyone here really expect us to compete for a title in 2 seasons?

It takes time to build a winning team. Rome wasn't built in a day. I think my post you responded to pointed out several of the team's weaknesses. If we don't improve our pass rush, secondary, and O-line it doesn't matter who we have behind center. By the time you get pieces around the QB "we draft" in 2021 he'll will be on his 3rd year an poised to get his "big contract" extension and complicate the salary cap situation.

A good QB may get us a couple of more wins, but I thought Tepper and Rhule said that they are attempting to build a contender year in and year out. It's time to finally put back to back winning seasons together in Carolina. I don't want anymore "sustained mediocrity" in Charlotte. We all deserve better than that.

[TheCasillas]

34 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

That's really not disproving the point. The point is now we have to hope the early teams picked the shitty QBs first instead of the good ones. Those teams up there are smart teams with good front offices and the ones who keep picking stupid QBs are bad franchises. IF we have a smart/good front office and we have the top pick we just make the smart play without having to just hope another team picks crappy.

It happens like with Dan Marino going even further back but none of that disproves the point.

I thought the point someone stated was bad franchises picking good qbs and ruining them. What's the point of any of this?  No matter which way you choose to interpret the data, everyone will have something anecdotal. The bottom line is that we have the ability to pick in the top 10 and of the 5 QBs predicted to go in the first round, we will most likely have access to 66% of them. 

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

6 hours ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

They traded up for Mahomes. Their next years first round pick was involved. Don't quote me anymore, because you didn't pay attention to the NFL Draft. Thanks come again. 

ok chuck

[micnificent28]

6 hours ago, MGH1989 said:

Totally bro. The Chiefs totally should have lost more games in 2017 to have picked Trubisky at 2 instead of Mahomes at 10. If only had they “tanked” and lost more games...

This is the exception not the rule. Finding Mahomes isn't gonna happen every draft. We picked cam at 1 while 7-8 got the jags Gabbert and they still searching. Better yet 26 got us Benjamin in 2014 and at 7 was OBJ. Yes picks matter. That winning culture is a falsehood. Players and coaches make the winning culture not winning against teams with their 4th string qb in a meaningless game against a 6-9 team.