I offer you some hope

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Matt Ryan isnt the problem in ATL 

I tend to agree, but I also tend to support opinions with facts instead of making unsupported proclamations as fact.   His age is a problem--he will be 36--and his contract vs. the production is a problem.  If you think $50m against the cap is not a problem, you need to examine the big picture--

Look at Matt and Julio on the payroll OTC

Julio Jones												$58,966,668	($38,550,000)
Matt Ryan												$68,900,000	($49,937,500)

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, bull123 said:

I remember that contract now

ryan going nowhere next year, what about year after?

if ATL drafts a qb, they will waste 2-3 yrs of a rookie deal on him

I wish I knew more about it---he has a weird contract--but they talk in ATL as if they are "stuck" with Ryan and Julio for a while.  See the post before this one.  I hate talking contracts etc because I have limited knowledge about it--there are gurus on here who understand it a lot better, fwiw.

[MHS831]

12 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

I was told by everyone on here that 17 QBs would be taken before we pick...

In fairness, one is a hybrid. 
I watch the videos on YouTube so I am an expert.  (Seriously) I cannot see what Fields has that Trask does not in terms of making throws.  I cannot understand why you would not surround a guy like Jones with a stud OL--he throws the ball up field better than most other college QBs.  So why are Fields, Wilson, and Lance so much better than these 2?  I do not get it.  Deep down inside, I hope that we have a shot at Fields and a team like NE trades up for him--and we get a boatload of picks.  Then we take a Trask or Jones and a LT, G, and TE.  A gamble, yes.  But a lot of this is hype.  Fields is not that great and he will not go #2.  Mark my words. 

[SCO96]

27 minutes ago, Monty83 said:

I look at the QB situation differently. We want our guy, the guy the front office feels is the one who will lead us for the foreseeable future. We don’t want to reach too hard for that person and give up too much of the future, but we also want to properly value the 1st round pick.

We all work under the understanding that you build teams through the draft. I believe that if our guy is not there at 9 and we have plenty of questions on anyone there, we should trade our 1st round pick for a future 1st rounder and an additional pick. And I would do the same thing the following year if in the same scenario. I would stockpile picks and build the rest of the team rounds 2-7 until we have the draft capital in a draft to identify and go get our guy. If that means another year of Teddy, we might be sitting with a Top 5-8 pick AND another 1st rounder to move up. That way, we get our guy without blowing future drafts and we’ve never stopped building the rest of the team.

The only thing worse than not getting your QB fast enough is getting the wrong QB or not being able to build the remainder of your team.

1st rounders are great, but their greatest values typically lie in only a couple of positions. I have no problem stocking those to get OUR guy at THE position.

We view this situation similarly. People are freaking out over getting a QB in the top 10, even though some of these QB prospects really shouldn't be drafted that high. The Trubinsky situation in Chicago is proof of what happens when a flawed QB is picked too early in the draft.

We have too many holes on this team to think a rookie QB in this particular class is the key to success in 2021. I'd assess the BPA each time I was on the clock. If he fits a need grab him. Anybody we pick in the rounds 1-3 should be expected to contribute immediately. If we have several prospects sitting on the board and we know we could still get one later in the draft by moving down, only then would I consider a trade for more draft choices.  

 

[TheMostInterestingMan]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

In fairness, one is a hybrid. 
I watch the videos on YouTube so I am an expert.  (Seriously) I cannot see what Fields has that Trask does not in terms of making throws.  I cannot understand why you would not surround a guy like Jones with a stud OL--he throws the ball up field better than most other college QBs.  So why is Lance so much better than these 2?  I do not get it.

Well for me personally I’m not sold on any of the QBs after Lawrence in this class. I was really big on Fields last year but he’s really not looked great in big games this season. And as everyone says about him, he holds the ball way too long. 
 

Wilson and Lance are just major question marks for me because of their competition. Yes, they could be very good but it’s hard to take a QB in the top 10 when they really haven’t played any competitive defenses. And while people say “sure but they don’t have top level offensive players around them either” that’s just an irrelevant point. When it comes to throwing the ball, it’s much easier to fit it into slow moving, less talented windows.

I am personally in the camp of patching up the holes on this roster and getting a QB next year. Just suggesting that makes 95% of this board go ape sh*t because “I just can’t watch another year of Teddy” and so on. But I just don’t trust spending a top 10 pick on a QB that is playing for BYU or North Dakota St. I would have no problem if it were a pick in the 20s. But top 10? Because if you take that guy you are basically committing to his development for the next 4 years. Just get this roster ready and get a QB next year at that point. Just my opinion of it. 
 

I won’t lie, Lance is intriguing to me. But honestly I would rather wait another year and make the move next season. 

[MHS831]

23 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Well for me personally I’m not sold on any of the QBs after Lawrence in this class. I was really big on Fields last year but he’s really not looked great in big games this season. And as everyone says about him, he holds the ball way too long. 
 

Wilson and Lance are just major question marks for me because of their competition. Yes, they could be very good but it’s hard to take a QB in the top 10 when they really haven’t played any competitive defenses. And while people say “sure but they don’t have top level offensive players around them either” that’s just an irrelevant point. When it comes to throwing the ball, it’s much easier to fit it into slow moving, less talented windows.

I am personally in the camp of patching up the holes on this roster and getting a QB next year. Just suggesting that makes 95% of this board go ape sh*t because “I just can’t watch another year of Teddy” and so on. But I just don’t trust spending a top 10 pick on a QB that is playing for BYU or North Dakota St. I would have no problem if it were a pick in the 20s. But top 10? Because if you take that guy you are basically committing to his development for the next 4 years. Just get this roster ready and get a QB next year at that point. Just my opinion of it. 
 

I won’t lie, Lance is intriguing to me. But honestly I would rather wait another year and make the move next season. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/12/23/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-2021/

This article is pretty honest--we just do not know.  And to your point, everyone is looking for a messiah more than a QB--rushing to process increases the likelihood your franchise QB will bust.  We need an OL, TE, and Teddy will improve--not to say that he is the answer, but we can win with him if we solidify our defense.  After all, Teddy did everything this season without CMC, a LT, a TE, and LG.  His C and RG were average on good days.

As much as you do not like Teddy, these were realities that the haters tended to ignore.  I do not like him, but teams have won super bowls with QBs like Hostetler, Difer, B. Johnson, etc.

This is a good draft for QBs, which is my only reason for wanting one right away. 

[45catfan]

This will be a quality QB draft.  That's the reason I was willing to wait until this year when a lot of people was screaming about QBs last draft.  Shore up the defense first {check} then come back the following year with a young QB.  The best thing you can do for a young QB is have a solid defense.  Ask Kerry Collins circa '96.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/12/23/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-2021/

This article is pretty honest--we just do not know.  And to your point, everyone is looking for a messiah more than a QB--rushing to process increases the likelihood your franchise QB will bust.  We need an OL, TE, and Teddy will improve--not to say that he is the answer, but we can win with him if we solidify our defense.  After all, Teddy did everything this season without CMC, a LT, a TE, and LG.  His C and RG were average on good days.

As much as you do not like Teddy, these were realities that the haters tended to ignore.  I do not like him, but teams have won super bowls with QBs like Hostetler, Difer, B. Johnson, etc.

This is a good draft for QBs, which is my only reason for wanting one right away. 

We are seeing things eye to eye. I was flamed on here a few weeks ago for saying that Teddy can win with a great team around it. He can’t carry us on his shoulders but if Jimmy G (yes, he’s still better than Teddy) can get to the Super Bowl or Flacco with the Ravens or Dilfer and so on, then Teddy can win with an amazing defense and playmakers surrounding him. I was crucified for saying this. 
 

Of course I also said I didn’t think he was the answer. But that was ignored. But I agree. I would rather not hold my breath and hope we get a franchise QB throwing darts in the dark. I had resided to expecting Rhule to need 3 years to make this team competitive again. It’s been one year. He’s got two more in my book. I’m in no hurry. Desperately trying to find a franchise QB year after year typically ends badly. And teaching for small school QBs is a risk. One I’m not opposed to taking either, but I would prefer not take that chance in the top 10. 
 

If we pass on a couple future pro bowlers for a 50/50 chance at a QB right now... I just don’t think it makes sense. Our LBs are trash our Oline only looks improved because of our scheme and Teddy releasing the ball honestly quicker than he should and our secondary would still be obliterated by teams like the Chiefs, Seahawks etc. 

If we believe in a QB then by all means take him. But if we aren’t sure, let’s just get an instant impact starter and wait a little longer. 

[MHS831]

32 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

This will be a quality QB draft.  That's the reason I was willing to wait until this year when a lot of people was screaming about QBs last draft.  Shore up the defense first {check} then come back the following year with a young QB.  The best thing you can do for a young QB is have a solid defense.  Ask Kerry Collins circa '96.

And our defense has been coming together over the last few weeks--at the beginning of the year?  not good.  We will add a LB and free up Chinn more, add a DB, maybe a DL, and this Defense should be good.

I was encouraged by Scott vs. Young, but we have to have a LT. I also think a LG that can pull with authority is essential.  We need a vet center with a young QB, so I can understand overpaying Paradis for 2021.

And a TE.   This offseason will be interesting

[pantherj]

There was chance before the devastating Wash win that we could draft a top QB and build around him as he learned. Then we'd be in that special golden zone where we have a great QB on a rookie contract, and talent all around him. That's when a SB win is a possibility, and even after the QB gets a big contract we'd still have a top tier team.  

Now what we're going to have is Teddy 8 - 8 limbo until he's too old to play anymore. Teddy's big contract, and the new one he's going to be offered when we go 8 - 8 will keep this franchise in the middle of the pack. Basically older Panthers fans are never going to see this team win a SB. 

[Icege]

Broncos and 49ers would have to trade up with only Detroit and MAYBE Atlanta being in the market for a QB.

I would love getting Lance, Wilson, Parsons, Pitts, or Surtain II @ #9.

I think it's cute that the same fans whining about "winning a meaningless game" last season because it would "prevent us from landing a top tier pass rusher" are still whining even after Brian Burns was selected @ #16. It's like sticking the fork in the outlet and then denying that it shocked the piss out of you.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

4 minutes ago, Icege said:

Broncos and 49ers would have to trade up with only Detroit and MAYBE Atlanta being in the market for a QB.

I would love getting Lance, Wilson, Parsons, Pitts, or Surtain II @ #9.

I think it's cute that the same fans whining about "winning a meaningless game" last season because it would "prevent us from landing a top tier pass rusher" are still whining even after Brian Burns was selected @ #16. It's like sticking the fork in the outlet and then denying that it shocked the piss out of you.

Preach 

[pantherj]

Just as a side note I strongly suspect that there are several members of the local media reading these threads to get ideas for what to ask Rhule and the Panthers players.

[SCO96]

1 hour ago, pantherj said:

There was chance before the devastating Wash win that we could draft a top QB and build around him as he learned. Then we'd be in that special golden zone where we have a great QB on a rookie contract, and talent all around him. That's when a SB win is a possibility, and even after the QB gets a big contract we'd still have a top tier team.  

Now what we're going to have is Teddy 8 - 8 limbo until he's too old to play anymore. Teddy's big contract, and the new one he's going to be offered when we go 8 - 8 will keep this franchise in the middle of the pack. Basically older Panthers fans are never going to see this team win a SB. 

The sky isn't falling because we don't draft a QB in the top 10.  Deals are being reworked/extended for productive good QB's after their 3rd seasons now (Wilson, Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, Watson). I can't think of any top QB's in recent years who played out their final year of their rookie deal.  I don't think any of the guys ranked in the top 5 at QB in the 2021 draft (Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Wilson, Trask) will be hoisting Lombardi trophies in 3 seasons. This is due to fact they will likely all be going to crappy teams. If they're any good at all they will probably be on their 2nd deal before the win anything and we know what that does to the salary cap.

Now if you put these guys on a team that is only a QB short of contending for a title then things can change in a hurry for their franchise. If we get a QB in the 2021 and he proves to be great draft I'll be thrilled. But seriously, we don't have to get a guy in the top 10 or even the first round "THIS YEAR" in order for Panther fans to ever see the team win a SB.  We have time to find a guy later in the draft or next year.

The highly touted QB class of 1983 had John Elway, Todd Blackledge, Jim Kelly, Ken O Brian, Tony Eason, and Dan Marino. You know how many Superbowls they won between them...2! Elway won both of them during the last two years in the league, largely due a strong all around Bronco team that featured Terrell Davis @ tailback. Before that Eason, Marino, Elway, and Kelly went 0-9 in Superbowl play. The latter 3 all made the hall of fame, but they lost their Super Bowls because their opponents had better all around teams. I doubt we'll have 3 hall of famers out of this years QB class.

We don't need to reach for a QB and end up like Chicago.