For those wanting to draft a QB.... here's an interesting article in PFT

[musicman]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/26/highly-drafted-quarterbacks-rarely-transform-bad-franchises/

Interesting take as sometimes you still need good team around a high draft pick to really win. FA and the cost of keeping top players changed the game IMO. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, musicman said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/26/highly-drafted-quarterbacks-rarely-transform-bad-franchises/

Interesting take as sometimes you still need good team around a high draft pick to really win. FA and the cost of keeping top players changed the game IMO. 

That was an atrocious article.

[Khyber53]

16 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That was an atrocious article.

I don't know if it was atrocious, but it was incomplete. A really good one would have looked at former top 5 QB picks and how many of them took their teams to the playoffs eventually. 

Cam, for easiest example, isn't mentioned in the article but the former #1 overall pick took us to multiple playoff games and a Super Bowl appearance. 

The overall premise of the article is a good one, and probably right, in that bad organizations rarely blossom under a new highly picked QB. A good QB pick, though, can blossom in a good organization. 

Locally, we have to ask are we a good organization at the moment? The feel is a positive one, but the record isn't reflecting it yet. 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't know if it was atrocious, but it was incomplete. A really good one would have looked at former top 5 QB picks and how many of them took their teams to the playoffs eventually. 

Cam, for easiest example, isn't mentioned in the article but the former #1 overall pick took us to multiple playoff games and a Super Bowl appearance. 

The overall premise of the article is a good one, and probably right, in that bad organizations rarely blossom under a new highly picked QB. A good QB pick, though, can blossom in a good organization. 

Locally, we have to ask are we a good organization at the moment? The feel is a positive one, but the record isn't reflecting it yet. 

I could have written that in 30 minutes with Google.

He didn't dive deep and do a longer period nor break down success rates by round...none of that. It was just lazy. Any one of us could have written that article with minimal effort.

[musicman]

2 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't know if it was atrocious, but it was incomplete. A really good one would have looked at former top 5 QB picks and how many of them took their teams to the playoffs eventually. 

Cam, for easiest example, isn't mentioned in the article but the former #1 overall pick took us to multiple playoff games and a Super Bowl appearance. 

The overall premise of the article is a good one, and probably right, in that bad organizations rarely blossom under a new highly picked QB. A good QB pick, though, can blossom in a good organization. 

Locally, we have to ask are we a good organization at the moment? The feel is a positive one, but the record isn't reflecting it yet. 

Cam didn't turn around the franchise. He was great. We still had up and down seasons. And we had a great defense. We didn't have enough talent around him, especially in 2015 to complete the job. He was great and did wonders for the organization. The article is just pointing out that it's not even 50/50 that a high draft pick will turn around a franchise and how many were pushed back years because of a bad pick, not to mention the good picks that can't do it alone. 

[Panthercougar68]

I get where he’s coming from but to ignore that Tannehill and Alex Smith were both first round QBs themselves (albeit not with the current team) kinda makes it seem lazy.

Eli changed NY

Rivers did SD

Ryan did Atl

Just choosing this season to craft the argument is meh.

[WarHeel]

Color me shocked

[WarHeel]

20 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't know if it was atrocious, but it was incomplete. A really good one would have looked at former top 5 QB picks and how many of them took their teams to the playoffs eventually. 

Cam, for easiest example, isn't mentioned in the article but the former #1 overall pick took us to multiple playoff games and a Super Bowl appearance. 

The overall premise of the article is a good one, and probably right, in that bad organizations rarely blossom under a new highly picked QB. A good QB pick, though, can blossom in a good organization. 

Locally, we have to ask are we a good organization at the moment? The feel is a positive one, but the record isn't reflecting it yet. 

I guess we have to define “transformed.” Does two winning seasons of a nine season tenure equate to transforming a franchise?

[MHS831]

No QB is going to succeed without these ingredients in place:

1. An offensive line that not only protects the QB, but opens holes for the run game.  Without a run game, the DL's job becomes 1 dimensional, making it 2x easier.  You can hide one weak offensive lineman, but it is impossible to hide more than that. 

2. Weapons.  WRs (like we had with Benjamin and Funchess) that cannot separate and get open--that do not read zone coverage well, make the QB look inept and confused.  We have good weapons here----but we lack a TE.

3. A good defense.  Not only does this keep the score of the other team down so that you do not become one dimensional, it gives your offense more chances to be successful.

The best teams in the NFL--the best QBs---usually have these in place, but it seems all praise and blame goes to the QB.  This article mentions Tannehill--did he suddenly get better in Nashville?  

Now that is not to say that we cannot or should not draft a QB, but we have 2-3 holes to fill on the offensive line and we could use a few players on defense.  In other words, we need about 5 new starters on both sides of the ball to be competitive enough to make a new QB successful.  2021 is not the year that will happen in Carolina, but it is a great opportunity to draft the QB of the future.  I think we grab the QB, and as much as it is going to hurt to hear this, continue playing Bridgewater behind an upgraded OL--with an established TE.  That could mean that we re-sign Moton and let Samuel walk, but Moton, Paradis (for now) and Miller have not been that bad.  We miss a LG and LT.  If we could add that and a good, 2-dimensional TE, we could be immediately better on offense.  Then, in 2022, you replace the OC, RG, and add the missing pieces to the defense and you have a contender with a QB ready to take the reins.

We all want to win in 2021, and I am not saying that we should not try to make the playoffs, but if we do this right, a Super Bowl in 2022 is possible.

 

[GoobyPls]

This article is lazy and is directed at jets fans for the most part, not us.

 

The three highest rated QB ever coming out of college (Elway, Luck, Peyton) were all multiple pro bowl QBs who had a ton of success. Lawrence is in the same class, the chances of him failing are slim.

[MHS831]

Let's say there is some validity to this argument--and I detest any argument that applies selective logic and examples to make assumptions about the whole---then let's take a look at the damaged goods that are likely to be available in free agency or via low-ball trade should rumors come true.

1. Darnold would be available.  He has/had a terrible situation in NY.

2. Trubiski would be available.  In a good system with solid WRs, could he become reborn in Carolina?

3. Stafford on another team (if these rumors are true) could be amazing.  Although I cannot remember the last Lions QB, he is only 32 and could have 5-6 solid years left (That is about what we got out of Cam).

4. Wentz has been in a terrible situation.  What could he do with a strong supporting cast?

5. Lock is a player who looked good against us, but has been inconsistent.  He reminds me of Tannehill in Miami before the Titans acquired him.  Could he be a hidden gem?

6.  Haskins has all the tools, he simply makes bad decisions on a bad team.  Imagine a team that provided him with protection and more options?  A really effective QB coach and a QB-friendly system would work wonders for him---he wants to turn over a new leaf, I assume, or he will bust. It will not happen in Washington.

There is one thing these guys have that no draft pick has--NFL experience. Not good experiences, but bad experience is a teaching tool as well as success is....

You have to rid the bad taste in your mouth surrounding each player.  I used to be an educational administrator, and I was was famous for saying, "There are no bad kids.  There are kids in bad situations."   I think that applies to QB as well.  These are options should we decide to draft a Sewell in the first and a CB or MLB in the second.  We could bring in one of these unloved, neglected, discarded QBs and put him as the #2 heading into the season. 

Not saying this is the plan or that it should be, but I am saying that this is an option nobody here is discussing.

 

 

[musicman]

6 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

This article is lazy and is directed at jets fans for the most part, not us.

 

The three highest rated QB ever coming out of college (Elway, Luck, Peyton) were all multiple pro bowl QBs who had a ton of success. Lawrence is in the same class, the chances of him failing are slim.

We are not going to get Lawrence. Do we take a QB at 4 or 5? What happens it doesn't work out? If we had the #1 pick, it's Trevor all the way. But we don't. 

[Pimpdaddy]

6 minutes ago, musicman said:

We are not going to get Lawrence. Do we take a QB at 4 or 5? What happens it doesn't work out? If we had the #1 pick, it's Trevor all the way. But we don't. 

yea...thats what scares me...number one pick has to be starting imo.

 

[philp]

While we didn’t win the SB in 15, Cam transformed our franchise almost immediately. He made football fun to watch, which is the complete opposite of what we’ve got with Teddy. 

It’s like going from Steve Smith to Brandon LeFell. Jake to pickles. You get the point.