Wilson character issues.

[Moo Daeng]

9 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Hurney likely would've been fired, I'm assuming, but that's pretty much the norm for new owners because they like to bring in their own guys. Many would probably say that was a mistake by Tepper, but I see it as measured and open-minded!

Tepper was specifically told that Hurney was good by his Steelers contacts. It was joked here that they were sabotaging Tepper.

[top dawg]

Just now, Moo Daeng said:

Tepper was specifically told that Hurney was good by his Steelers contacts. It was joked here that they were sabotaging Tepper.

They likely told him that Hurney was a good evaluator (whoever it actually was---we don't know)! Tepper was never all-in on Hurney though. He was taking more of a wait-and-see approach. Losing makes a man impatient though!

[SizzleBuzz]

4 hours ago, top dawg said:

8 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

I don't think they were but OK.

Good point.

Had the Rooney's taken over the Panthers at the exact time Tepper did, where would Hurndog have fit within the hierarchy of their organization, and how long would he have lasted?

Hurney likely would've been fired, I'm assuming, but that's pretty much the norm for new owners because they like to bring in their own guys.

Many would probably say that was a mistake by Tepper, but I see it as measured and open-minded!

Agreed that Hurney would have been fired.  That said, not because it's "the norm for new owners" but rather, there wouldn't have been an "old school" GM position for Hurney within the highly effective Rooney organization.

Hence, we have data-point #2 that Tepper ain't using the "traditional" Rooney "old school" model to run the Panthers.  (#1 Tepp thumbs nose @ NFL w/ Kaep ally signing, #2 Tepp keeps inept GM who Rooney's wud fire)

We agree that Tepper not running off Hurndog was measured and prudent...but the reason this is so is Hurndog wasn't functioning in the "traditional" GM role.

Onward...

...when did the Rooney's ever go out and completely blowup the coaching compensation market with a never-been-seen-before pay package for a guy who has never been a head coach in the league --- thereby dramatically increasing coaching comp expenses for all other teams going forward?  Where does this move fit within the Rooney Organization traditional old-school playbook?

[Adb6368]

10 hours ago, panthers55 said:

In the NFL character actually counts a great deal. Not on the field so much as in the locker room and elsewhere. 

 

I go both ways on this. For all the hate cam got, you can argue he was the most philanthropic athlete Charlotte has ever had if you were really paying attention. 

however, all around scumbags and divas such as TO get chance after chance because of talent. There’s a breaking point where you can be a degenerate but be good enough that people turn a blind eye unfortunately 

[SizzleBuzz]

1 hour ago, Adb6368 said:

I go both ways on this. For all the hate cam got, you can argue he was the most philanthropic athlete Charlotte has ever had if you were really paying attention. 

however, all around scumbags and divas such as TO get chance after chance because of talent. There’s a breaking point where you can be a degenerate but be good enough that people turn a blind eye unfortunately 

If "philanthropy" were the measuring stick Tepper would already be the most popular person in Charlotte's professional sports history!

He's already donated $22,000,000+ to covid relief efforts alone...

...and many hundreds of millions to other causes...

 

[top dawg]

9 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Agreed that Hurney would have been fired.  That said, not because it's "the norm for new owners" but rather, there wouldn't have been an "old school" GM position for Hurney within the highly effective Rooney organization.

Hence, we have data-point #2 that Tepper ain't using the "traditional" Rooney "old school" model to run the Panthers.  (#1 Tepp thumbs nose @ NFL w/ Kaep ally signing, #2 Tepp keeps inept GM who Rooney's wud fire)

We agree that Tepper not running off Hurndog was measured and prudent...but the reason this is so is Hurndog wasn't functioning in the "traditional" GM role.

Onward...

...when did the Rooney's ever go out and completely blowup the coaching compensation market with a never-been-seen-before pay package for a guy who has never been a head coach in the league --- thereby dramatically increasing coaching comp expenses for all other teams going forward?  Where does this move fit within the Rooney Organization traditional old-school playbook?

That's really not a football move as much as it's an economic one! It's also a ballsy move that may or may not have an impact on the future coaching market, but if it does, good for coaches' pocketbooks! 

As for football, I think you're putting way too much emphasis on "old school" or your perception of "old school." When I think of old school, I think of relying on a great defense as a cornerstone of success, and using the run to set up the pass, trying to keep the run-pass ratio around 50/50---those types of things! But this doesn't mean the Steelers' don't believe in adapting. Ben has aired it out on occasion as well. But I think they try to get players that are true to their tradition. And, I believe that we want to do that. Hell, we have done it over our history as a cheaper, less effective imitation. Tepper and Rhule seem to have similar ideas, but obviously look to use the advent of modern analytics to aid them in finding the players that will make it happen. We will see!

The one thing that sets the Steelers' apart from all other organizations is their belief in coaching continuity. Rhule's contract is probably a good indicator that Tepper believes in the same thing.

[Daly]

Walter football is not credited 

[SizzleBuzz]

12 hours ago, top dawg said:

That's really not a football move as much as it's an economic one! It's also a ballsy move that may or may not have an impact on the future coaching market, but if it does, good for coaches' pocketbooks! 

As for football, I think you're putting way too much emphasis on "old school" or your perception of "old school."

The one thing that sets the Steelers' apart from all other organizations is their belief in coaching continuity. Rhule's contract is probably a good indicator that Tepper believes in the same thing.

Regardless of how you want to categorize the "move" it runs completely counter to how the Rooney family operates and is something they have never done.

I'm not putting any emphasis on "old school" whatsoever, you're the one who brought that up.  Tepper's M.O. is the exact opposite of "old school"...the NFL has never seen a operating model/strategy like what Tepper has put into play.

Tepper's on coach #2 in less than 3-years of ownership so it's waaaay to early to give any credit for "coaching continuity".....Rhule's "contract" doesn't mean jack-sh*t.  It's meaningful to Rhule in that it secures him for life but if Tepp decides firing his ass before next season is the right thing for the team, having to pay off that contract won't phase Big Dave in any way, shape, or form.

Have you seen Tepper's press conference quote as reported by Darin Gantt?  See attached screenshot...

...how does that operating policy dovetail with the Rooney's method of operations?

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Regardless of how you want to categorize the "move" it runs completely counter to how the Rooney family operates and is something they have never done.

I'm not putting any emphasis on "old school" whatsoever, you're the one who brought that up.  Tepper's M.O. is the exact opposite of "old school"...the NFL has never seen a operating model/strategy like what Tepper has put into play.

Tepper's on coach #2 in less than 3-years of ownership so it's waaaay to early to give any credit for "coaching continuity".....Rhule's "contract" doesn't mean jack-sh*t.  It's meaningful to Rhule in that it secures him for life but if Tepp decides firing his ass before next season is the right thing for the team, having to pay off that contract won't phase Big Dave in any way, shape, or form.

Have you seen Tepper's press conference quote as reported by Darin Gantt?  See attached screenshot...

...how does that operating policy dovetail with the Rooney's method of operations?

You keep on talking about Tepper as if he's been an owner for years upon years. The fact that he came in and gave Rhule a seven year contract is extraordinary, and, regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not, it does speak to the Steelers' patience & understanding that building excellence & maintaining it is a long process!

Sorry, I don't see Tepper's strategy as so innovative. It's pragmatic according to the situation, and according to the modern-day NFL. And, yes, Dan Rooney made some tough decisions, was pragmatic, not afraid to shake things up, & was very much involved with who the team hired and fired, and was pivotal in the decision to bring Roethlisberger (for example) to the Steelers. That's a fact!

And, Art Rooney II and family is honoring that legacy!

This is Tepper's team, so of course he's going to own it as he sees fit! But to pretend that he won't take anything from being a minority owner of arguably the most successful NFL franchise in history is simply unbelievable.

[SizzleBuzz]

9 minutes ago, top dawg said:

You keep on talking about Tepper as if he's been an owner for years upon years. The fact that he came in and gave Rhule a seven year contract is extraordinary, and, regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not, it does speak to the Steelers' patience & understanding that building excellence & maintaining it is a long process!

Sorry, I don't see Tepper's strategy as so innovative. It's pragmatic according to the situation, and according to the modern-day NFL. And, yes, Dan Rooney made some tough decisions, was pragmatic, not afraid to shake things up, & was very much involved with who the team hired and fired, and was pivotal in the decision to bring Roethlisberger (for example) to the Steelers. That's a fact!

So the guy in the video made a comment about Tepper "reinventing the wheel"...

...in your opinion what was the genesis of said comment?

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, SizzleBuzz said:

So the guy in the video made a comment about Tepper "reinventing the wheel"...

...in your opinion what was the genesis of said comment?

He made it in reference to firing Hurney, who, in his mind, had a record of success acquiring talent for the Panthers and setting up the Panthers in a relatively good situation personnel-wise going forward. Sure, that could have also extended to axing Rivera, but firing Hurney directly prompted his remarks in the video.

[SizzleBuzz]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

He made it in reference to firing Hurney, who, in his mind, had a record of success acquiring talent for the Panthers and setting up the Panthers in a relatively good situation personnel-wise going forward. Sure, that could have also extended to axing Rivera, but firing Hurney directly prompted his remarks in the video.

Yea we disagree.

That's ok.

So since Hurndog is gone what's Tepper's next move? 

Do you think he will hire and install an "old school" 60+ year-old GM like what the Steelers have and give him (her) complete control of the Panthers?

[top dawg]

14 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Yea we disagree.

That's ok.

So since Hurndog is gone what's Tepper's next move? 

Do you think he will hire and install an "old school" 60+ year-old GM like what the Steelers have and give him (her) complete control of the Panthers?

The Steelers GM doesn't have complete control, indeed some say Tomlin has the most control. In any event, I've already said that I'd be surprised if Tepper doesn't hire Kevin Colbert as soon as he's able to do so. Tepper has already hired Samir Suleiman, Omar Khan, and reportedly already tried to get Colbert once. I think that a collaborative spirit and being on one accord as far as the greater picture meet not only Tepper's vision, but checks Rhule's boxes as well.

[SizzleBuzz]

23 minutes ago, top dawg said:

The Steelers GM doesn't have complete control, indeed some say Tomlin has the most control. In any event, I've already said that I'd be surprised if Tepper doesn't hire Kevin Colbert as soon as he's able to do so. Tepper has already hired Samir Suleiman, Omar Khan, and reportedly already tried to get Colbert once. I think that a collaborative spirit and being on one accord as far as the greater picture meet not only Tepper's vision, but checks Rhule's boxes as well.

If Colbert is hired will he be in a position senior to Rhule?  Meaning, Rhule reports to Colbert, and Cobert reports to Tepper....yes?

Tepper has made it clear that a deep background in "analytics" is a prerequisite to being considered for the "GM" position...does Colbert have the necessary skill?  I have no opinion one way or the other, just curious as to whether or not he does?

EDIT:  According to Colbert's wiki page he turns 64 next month...do we really think Tepper is going to bring in another dinosaur?!?  Is it possible that a 64 year-old guy like that is ahead of the curve as it goes to "analytics"?!?