So was Hurney the one that decided to cut Cam?

[Tinamedina]

On 12/23/2020 at 10:48 AM, TLGPanthersFan said:

I know people have said Brady insisted on Bridgewater and wouldn’t join the Panthers if we didn’t get him. I always found that bull. 
Before the season Hurney seemed very confident we could make the playoffs with this team. 
As much as people think Rhule had a ton of control I think he didn’t have as much as people thought. 
Brown was a Hurney pick. Bridgewater felt like a Hurney signing, the bloated contract definitely was vintage Hurney. CMC mega contract was a mistake, Shaqs contract as well. 
Hurney is old fashioned. Which I always interpreted as: Hurney builds the team with some input from he coach but Hurney has the final say and the coach tries to work with what Hurney gives him. Which for 3 years hasn’t worked at all and resulted in worsening records. 

Rhule wanted brown, but Rhule wanted to trade back and get Isiah simmons as well.

[Tinamedina]

17 hours ago, panthers55 said:

The whole Hurney didn't want Cam  is interesting because it flies in the face of so many so-called truths about Hurney. He gives out too many needless extensions, he is too loyal to his players. He is bad judge of talent and doesn't know when to move on. Yet he knew when to trade Benjamin and when to let Olsen and Cam go apparently. If he pulled the plug on Cam for Bridgewater he made a ballsy move.  He saved 5 million in cap space this year when we needed every penny  and brought in someone who could run Brady's scheme right away. It didn't work out like planned with Bridgewater but he made the best plan he could to win.

I doubt Bridgewater was why Hurney was canned. I think it was always planned this way. Get rid of Rivera and bring in Rhule, keep Hurney through this season and now that Rhule has some experience move on to his guy.  Anything short of a playoff run and Hurney was gone no matter what.

And see? That's the thing, this whole argument about Bridgewater being able to run whatever system Brady has is not true. We can see that judging by our unnecessary losses. Honestly, Pj Walker ran Bradys offense system better. The offense moved faster and more dominating during that lion's game.

[PhillyB]

11 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

The problem with your "wildcard" thesis is Hurney didn't have discretionary power to cut anyone, at all.

There's just 0.00% chance Tepper would ever allow Hurndog to make a call like this on his own.

It really is an incredibly laughable supposition...

it's really not that far fetched.

take gano/butker. there's a reasonable case to be made for each guy. tepper could've said "look, i prefer butker but ultimately it's your call" and hurney went with the wrong guy in retrospect. 

GMs are largely judged by outcomes in situations like this, and it's not a stretch to assume that hurney was axed for coming out on the wrong side of too many choices, this one included.

[Peon Awesome]

4 hours ago, PhillyB said:

it's really not that far fetched.

take gano/butker. there's a reasonable case to be made for each guy. tepper could've said "look, i prefer butker but ultimately it's your call" and hurney went with the wrong guy in retrospect. 

GMs are largely judged by outcomes in situations like this, and it's not a stretch to assume that hurney was axed for coming out on the wrong side of too many choices, this one included.

Sorry but no amount of mental gymnastics has this making sense. The idea that the team would choose the opinion of the GM hired by the previous ownership and on the final year of his contract over the wishes of the new coaching staff that was paid a fortune to take the reins of the team is just completely nonsensical. This isn't an argument about the kicker. We're talking about the single most important position on the team and the cog that makes the offense go. You might try to argue that the coaches could have had ZERO preference, so they used Hurney as the tie breaker. Which even at face value seems an absurd premise that the offensive coordinator and head coach would have no preference between 2 vastly different QBs. Even the slightest preference should go to the coaches.  But let's take that absurd premise and still acknowledge that is very different than your original post: that Brady, Rhule and Tepper preferred Cam but Hurney convinced them to cut him in favor of Bridgewater. 

Also your argument is largely based on the fact that Hurney losing his job now might insinuate that the decision to cut Cam was one of the final straws in his firing. As flimsy of an argument as that is already, you really think Tepper is looking at Cam's season and pissed at Hurney for cutting him? We are talking about 2020 Cam, right? Keep in mind too that he decided this after Cam COMBINED for 328 yards passing, zero tds (including rushing) to 1 interception, an 0-2 record and 15 total points in the last 2 weeks. It's after those 2 performances that Tepper said "Enough is enough! Hurney is out of here since he fooled us into cutting Cam Newton!" Do you think Tepper is really distraught he's not on the team? Cause I sure as hell don't. And you're gonna be hard-pressed to find many people who actually think that.

And finally, if you're going to say it was more the decision to choose Bridgewater than it was to cut Cam, why don't you reread your thread title and let us know how many times you're going to pivot your opinion so it turns from completely unfathomable down to an enormous stretch. It's past time you step off this crazy hill you are trying to die on. 

[PhillyB]

27 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

Sorry but no amount of mental gymnastics has this making sense. The idea that the team would choose the opinion of the GM hired by the previous ownership and on the final year of his contract over the wishes of the new coaching staff that was paid a fortune to take the reins of the team is just completely nonsensical. This isn't an argument about the kicker. We're talking about the single most important position on the team and the cog that makes the offense go. You might try to argue that the coaches could have had ZERO preference, so they used Hurney as the tie breaker. Which even at face value seems an absurd premise that the offensive coordinator and head coach would have no preference between 2 vastly different QBs. Even the slightest preference should go to the coaches.  But let's take that absurd premise and still acknowledge that is very different than your original post: that Brady, Rhule and Tepper preferred Cam but Hurney convinced them to cut him in favor of Bridgewater. 

Also your argument is largely based on the fact that Hurney losing his job now might insinuate that the decision to cut Cam was one of the final straws in his firing. As flimsy of an argument as that is already, you really think Tepper is looking at Cam's season and pissed at Hurney for cutting him? We are talking about 2020 Cam, right? Keep in mind too that he decided this after Cam COMBINED for 328 yards passing, zero tds (including rushing) to 1 interception, an 0-2 record and 15 total points in the last 2 weeks. It's after those 2 performances that Tepper said "Enough is enough! Hurney is out of here since he fooled us into cutting Cam Newton!" Do you think Tepper is really distraught he's not on the team? Cause I sure as hell don't. And you're gonna be hard-pressed to find many people who actually think that.

And finally, if you're going to say it was more the decision to choose Bridgewater than it was to cut Cam, why don't you reread your thread title and let us know how many times you're going to pivot your opinion so it turns from completely unfathomable down to an enormous stretch. It's past time you step off this crazy hill you are trying to die on. 

do you think i'm arguing this is unequivocally the case? did you notice in the OP i stated that none of the premises listed are enough by themselves to point towards an evidence-based argument for the idea that hurney alone cut cam?

work on comprehension C lister

[Peon Awesome]

1 minute ago, PhillyB said:

do you think i'm arguing this is unequivocally the case? did you notice in the OP i stated that none of the premises listed are enough by themselves to point towards an evidence-based argument for the idea that hurney alone cut cam?

work on comprehension C lister

Yes, so your thread boils down to "Hey guys I have this theory based on incredibly weak conjecture and flimsy premises that fly in the face of logic, but let's discuss." I am simply pointing out how silly that is. Apologies I dare speak up from my lowly position on the totem pole. I am but a peon after all. 

[Mr. Scot]

The idea that an owner would defer to a GM on a roster decision is not farfetched at all. In fact, that's what most of them do.

I've seen nothing to indicate to me that Tepper is personally having to sign off on every roster decision. It's reasonable to expect he's informed of the major ones ahead of time, but that doesn't mean he has to okay them.

And yes, if you get more of those decisions wrong than you do right, you get fired.

[PhillyB]

18 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

Yes, so your thread boils down to "Hey guys I have this theory based on incredibly weak conjecture and flimsy premises that fly in the face of logic, but let's discuss." I am simply pointing out how silly that is. Apologies I dare speak up from my lowly position on the totem pole. I am but a peon after all. 

yes you fugin dolt that's literally what the thread's concluding paragraph says and is reflected by its exploratory title

[Peon Awesome]

4 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

yes you fugin dolt that's literally what the thread's concluding paragraph says and is reflected by its exploratory title

Weird, is it not allowed to reply to a thread and convey my opinion on it? Are we only allowed to parrot in agreement at how brilliant and logical your points are? I'm sorry I do not know the rules. I am but a C list dolt. 

[PhillyB]

2 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

I am but a C list dolt. 

lead with this next time so we know to skip your posts. plz and thx 

[MasterAwesome]

4 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

lead with this next time so we know to skip your posts. plz and thx 

I hate to break it to you, but I don’t think anyone reading this thread is coming away thinking he’s the dolt. I would argue the dolt is probably the poster who suggested maybe Tepper wanted to keep Butker over Gano, but deferred to Hurney...an entire year before he even bought the team. But debunking all your dumb points with facts and rational thinking hasn’t stopped you yet so please continue. Your conspiratorial nonsense in this thread reads as an audition for a Newsmax anchor job.

[Peon Awesome]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The idea that an owner would defer to a GM on a roster decision is not farfetched at all. In fact, that's what most of them do.

I've seen nothing to indicate to me that Tepper is personally having to sign off on every roster decision. It's reasonable to expect he's informed of the major ones ahead of time, but that doesn't mean he has to okay them.

And yes, if you get more of those decisions wrong than you do right, you get fired.

Absolutely. That general premise in a vacuum is not far fetched at all. But the question is whether Tepper would allow Hurney, in his final year, to effectively overrule both him and the new head coach he signed to a 7 year contract (plus the new offensive coordinator) on arguably the single most important roster decision: starting qb. That seems incredibly far-fetched to me. But that's my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

[LinvilleGorge]

Find me any quote where Tepper seemed to indicate he had any plans to keep Cam Newton long-term.

[PhillyB]

54 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I hate to break it to you, but I don’t think anyone reading this thread is coming away thinking he’s the dolt. I would argue the dolt is probably the poster who suggested maybe Tepper wanted to keep Butker over Gano, but deferred to Hurney...an entire year before he even bought the team. But debunking all your dumb points with facts and rational thinking hasn’t stopped you yet so please continue. Your conspiratorial nonsense in this thread reads as an audition for a Newsmax anchor job.

this is... painful