Be careful what you wish for....

[Sultan33g]

Sorry if my tone is too harsh, I don't mean it to be.

Quick question though... When Vinny, Carr, Moore, and Weinke threw those ridiculous balls to Smitty, why didn't he bail them out like he does with Jake? And last year Smitty was missing for the first two games. Were Rosario and King bailing out Jake when they made big grabs to help us win them?

At some point you have to realize that for all his faults, Delhomme has won a lot of games for us. And he showed no sign last year of slowing down until he was asked to carry the team without a running game in the playoffs.

I am not in the mood of firing everybody and starting over from scratch...but we need to realize that right now things arent working like they used to...if after the offseason we keep delhomme under center and john fox is still the coach of a team that didnt make the playoffs are you going to be saying these same things?

[Cyberjag]

I am not in the mood of firing everybody and starting over from scratch...but we need to realize that right now things arent working like they used to...if after the offseason we keep delhomme under center and john fox is still the coach of a team that didnt make the playoffs are you going to be saying these same things?

Obviously that depends on a lot of things. Even if things do change for the better, I will be very surprised if we don't bring in another QB in the offseason. I won't be bothered a bit if Fox returns, he's done a great job and one mediocre season doesn't make him a bad coach. If we have some good young talent waiting in the wings at QB (which we don't right now), then I won't be bothered if Jake is under center at the start of the season.

I want something to hope for, and I'm happy that we have a team which is viewed as a consistent threat every year. When was the last time we were eliminated from playoff contention before December? You have to go back to 2001 for that, the days before Fox.

Jake isn't the best QB out there by a long shot, but we've been winning with him for years and I don't think he's declined so much as we've had some rather bizarre play-calling earlier this year. Why on earth would you EVER ask him to throw long in the first half, or would you want him to throw 44 times? If we get back to conservative ball, then what makes Jake good will help us win. When we play a game that highlights what keeps him from being great, then he helps us lose.

Based on last year QB was nowhere near the top of our priorities list in the offseason. As I mentioned earlier, that list was headed by Gamble, Gross, and Peppers. Then came the defensive line, and then a third receiver. If the season ended today I suspect the list would be QB, then WR, and then DT. And they would act accordingly.

If they address those areas, even if they're wrong about a pick, I'll still support them. At least I can see that they're working with what they have. And I know that they'll win with what they have more often than not.

To those of us who've followed the team since the beginning, that's still worth something. Consistency doesn't mean consistent dominance, that's an unreasonable demand. But this board is full of unreasonable people...

[Kevin Greene]

Do you think Jax wishes it had kept Coughlin?

The main thing that determines a head coach's success in this league is his quarterback. He can draft good players at every position, but unless he has a guy out there who can lead his team and make good decisions AND good throws, he'll wallow in mediocrity.

Coughlin was winning in Jax when he had Brunell in his prime. When Brunell started to slide, so did the Jags.

Give Fox a top-10, hell maybe even top-15, quarterback and he'll have you right back in the playoffs.

A lot of people on this forum maintain Fox and his staff, past and present are incapable of developing a quarterback. And that in fact, Joe Flacco would have been a wasted pick based on that.

[Sultan33g]

Obviously that depends on a lot of things. Even if things do change for the better, I will be very surprised if we don't bring in another QB in the offseason. I won't be bothered a bit if Fox returns, he's done a great job and one mediocre season doesn't make him a bad coach. If we have some good young talent waiting in the wings at QB (which we don't right now), then I won't be bothered if Jake is under center at the start of the season.

I want something to hope for, and I'm happy that we have a team which is viewed as a consistent threat every year. When was the last time we were eliminated from playoff contention before December? You have to go back to 2001 for that, the days before Fox.

Jake isn't the best QB out there by a long shot, but we've been winning with him for years and I don't think he's declined so much as we've had some rather bizarre play-calling earlier this year. Why on earth would you EVER ask him to throw long in the first half, or would you want him to throw 44 times? If we get back to conservative ball, then what makes Jake good will help us win. When we play a game that highlights what keeps him from being great, then he helps us lose.

Based on last year QB was nowhere near the top of our priorities list in the offseason. As I mentioned earlier, that list was headed by Gamble, Gross, and Peppers. Then came the defensive line, and then a third receiver. If the season ended today I suspect the list would be QB, then WR, and then DT. And they would act accordingly.

If they address those areas, even if they're wrong about a pick, I'll still support them. At least I can see that they're working with what they have. And I know that they'll win with what they have more often than not.

To those of us who've followed the team since the beginning, that's still worth something. Consistency doesn't mean consistent dominance, that's an unreasonable demand. But this board is full of unreasonable people...

ya I will support my team through anything, but I know one thing my opinion honestly doesnt matter to Jerry richardson

[Fiz]

I mean, do you really not understand what it means for a team to take their foot off the gas??? Wow.

alright woodie, what were the panthers doing differently when they had their "foot on the gas?" explain to me your use of the most tired football cliché in the world.

[carolinanimal]

based on you guys thoughts we should never make any changes because the alternative would be worse. we should never get any draft picks because they could be bust or new coaches because the new ones could suck. Why didnt we apply these thoughts to our prior coaches? you guys do realize that fox will not be here forever dont you? eventually by him retiring or some other circumstance that he will leave. what will you do then? will we be doomed to sucking forever?

[Mr. Scot]

Only way I see Fox getting fired is a season worse than 7-9. Richardson fired Capers after 4-12 and Seifert after 1-15.

My take too.

Do you think Jax wishes it had kept Coughlin?

The main thing that determines a head coach's success in this league is his quarterback. He can draft good players at every position, but unless he has a guy out there who can lead his team and make good decisions AND good throws, he'll wallow in mediocrity.

Coughlin was winning in Jax when he had Brunell in his prime. When Brunell started to slide, so did the Jags.

Give Fox a top-10, hell maybe even top-15, quarterback and he'll have you right back in the playoffs.

Herein lies the question. Would they have eventually won in their existing spots, or did it take a change of scenery to get them to the mountain top?

I'd agree that if Fox had the type of QB you're talking about, he'd be better. The problem there is that given his philosophy, getting that QB would have to be forced on him the same way it was on Cowher.

Do you believe Marty Hurney is inclined to take such an action?

[Mr. Scot]

I'll say it again. I am in favor of changes at the top, but I think we should all be realistic about what that means.

People want to cite guys like Mike Tomlin and Josh McDaniels as examples of quick success, but there are conditions in both cases that don't apply in Charlotte.

Tomlin essentially came in and took the keys to what was already a well-oiled machine. Like Gruden in Tampa, he's had early success. Will that success continue though? Unknown.

Similarly, McDaniels came in on the heels of what was a surprise firing, so he didn't exactly inherit a team in shambles. And let's be real here. To this point he's really only won some regular season games. There's still half a season and the playoffs to go in year one, so let's not put him in Canton just yet.

Let's also remember that for every Josh McDaniels or Mike Tomlin, there's a Cam Cameron, a Jack Del Rio, a Marty Mornhinweg, etc.

And what about guys like Raheem Morris and Steve Spagnuolo? Will they get the chance to redeem themselves in future years like Jimmy Johnson, or will their first year be so awful that they'll wind up on the street again?

Would we as fans be willing to suffer through seasons like these guys are having in hopes of being better next year, or would the same people who laid palm branches across the road for their arrival at the start of the season be in the crowd shouting "crucify him" by season's end?

It's a question worth asking, because it's a real possibility.

In the end, yes I am for regime change, but I also recognize it's a gamble, not a panacea.

Bottom Line: The reason you make a change at the top is because you believe the situation under the current coach is beyond repair, not because you think the next young hotshot is out there ready to work miracles. Go into it with your eyes wide open to the possibility that things could get even worse. And if you still support it, at least you're doing so from a realistic vantage point.

[Cyberjag]

Would we as fans be willing to suffer through seasons like these guys are having in hopes of being better next year, or would the same people who laid palm branches across the road for their arrival at the start of the season be in the crowd shouting "crucify him" by season's end?

:smilielol5:

[mountainpantherfan]

John Fox is an effective coach. You can not deny this. All of the arguments that I hear people making about Fox have absolutley nothing to do with Fox, they have to do with the GM. The job of a GM is to be the coach's boss, not partner. You fire an effective coach when he no longer has the locker room. Not only has Fox not lost the locker room, the past two games show that this team is ralleying around Fox and the coaching staff. A couple of weeks ago I was for Fox getting fired because I thought he lost the team. Not now.

My suggestion would be to "promote" Hurney to a position where he is still working on the cap and contracts but bring in a new GM who can build a team and manage a coach. Fox stays for at least one more year but no contract extension this offseason. Jake Delhomme has to go and you bring in several new QB's.

To me, you change the GM position, you change this team. Let the coach coach and let the GM be the name building the team.

[Snake]

Only way I see Fox getting fired is a season worse than 7-9. Richardson fired Capers after 4-12 and Seifert after 1-15.

With the schedule we have we will be lucky to finish 7-9. I really dont see us able to beat any of the AFC East teams and also beat the Vikings as well. There just too good.

[carolinanimal]

isnt his contract over at the end of this year anyway?

[Snake]

isnt his contract over at the end of this year anyway?

Yes and it prob want be renewed.

[Mr. Scot]

:smilielol5:

Appropriate imagery, no?