Panthers will try to Trevor. Big time.

[thefuzz]

55, I'll give you this.  You will pick a hill to die on, and do so, even if said hill really ain't worth it.

[electro's horse]

6 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So how is Russell Wilson doing with a pretty poor.line. Let's look at Roethlisburger who had a crappy line for years and flourished. Of course Ben like Cam held the ball too.long contributing to the problem.   Great quarterbacks work within the limitations they have by adapting their game to what they have. Like now Ben gets the ball out quicker than anyone.  Why? Because if he sits back there he gets killed.

I am not saying Luck wasn't good but he wasn't a generational talent and wasn't work trading your whole draft for. lawrence won't be either.

Ben's been in the league for sixteen years, has had good offensive lines and bad, is completely falling apart, has missed entire seasons, and looks godawful now. I'm not sure what the comparison is you're trying to make.

Wilson is a freak. Whatever. I don't know what you can really draw from a case as unique as him. 

You've been saying a lot of stupid things, including Luck was carried by a bunch of players from 2010 that weren't on the team in 2012. I mean I guess 35 year old Reggie Wayne was still there. 

Also the Colts didn't trade any extra picks for Luck?

Just stop responding jesus you're out of your mind

[nctarheelreincarnated]

34 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Zach Wilson is playing tonight on ESPN for those of you who want to return to reality 

Made a thread before I saw this post. Well done, good sir. 

[Daddy_Uncle]

Like I said in my thread, there is no point in wasting energy talking about this. There is literally 0% chance that it will happen. We would have to make the worst trade of all time for it to happen. Instead let's be thankful we may have a chance at Sewell, Wilson, Fields and many other great players where we are and not rape ourselves for 1 guy.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

And how far did it get him and the Colts? How good and a QB is doesn't matter if they don't have a supporting cast. Also see Cam for example. 

If you have dimwits running your team, (see Luck and Cam) you are likely going to have an uphill battle and be forced to carry said teams.

If Luck goes to a well run team, he's a HOF'er, if Cam went to a well run team, he's a HOF'er.  Instead, they got the Panthers and Indy (which was a shell of it's former glory, and even then the best QB I've ever seen play the game only got them 1 Lombardi in well over a decade).

I'm not sure I want to give up the farm for Trevor, but at the very least it would prove to me that there is some type of plan in place for the future of this franchise...we have been rudderless for a LONG time.

[SCO96]

58 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

If he pulls a Manning I feel like we have a pretty realistic chance at him because it dramatically reduces any leverage they have. I'd love to have Trevor but not at the cost of hamstringing this franchise's ability to put a quality oline in front of him. If the reports saying Moton likely won't stay are true, and we all know Okung isnt' the long term answer at LT,  how will Lawrence fare if we have to give up the farm to get him? Yes there are 3 quality receiving targets in place, but most cap gurus are already saying it's unlikely we keep all 3 of them plus Moton long term.

I think everyone would do well to remember that when you say Lawrence is the best prospect in a decade, what you're really saying is best prospect since Luck, who was the last can't miss guy. He played in zero super bowls and retired due to health, the consequence of never having enough talent protecting him.

The first step in not being the next Luck/Colts story is not trading the farm away to get him.

You bring up a good point. I've followed the NFL consistently since 1979. During this time there have been 3 "once in generation QB's" according to the scouts: John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck. All were great, but I don't think any of them lived up to the hype...at least in terms of championships.

Elway: Fun to watch. Great clutch player in the 4th quarter. Yet, he lost 3 super bowls in 4 years during his prime, and the last two (vs. Washington and SF) were worse than the loss that preceded them. Both games were over at halftime. He's remembered fondly because he retired with back to back SB titles. But, anyone who remembers those years( 97-98) realizes that Terrell Davis, not John Elway, was the driving force on those championship teams. Davis was the MVP of the 1997 SB win vs Green Bay and actually missed part of the the game with a migraine headache. Elway missed 5 games in the 98 season(the great Bubby Brister took his place), and the Broncos still finished as the top seed in the AFC. Davis rushed for over 2,000 yards that year, and most of the time Mike Shanahan had him on the bench in the 4th quarter. He balled out in the SB against Atlanta and was the MVP of the 98 SB, but even then Davis rushed for over 100 yards.  He was not the best QB of his era (Joe Montana was despite being a 3rd round pick). And, was he that much better than Jim Kelly or Dan Marino?

Peyton: Retired with all of the all time records and arguably a top 5 QB all time. Played in 27 playoff games. His record was 14-13. He was 2-2 in Super Bowls. Had he lost SB 50 ( a game we all realize the Panther should have won) he would have finished with a 13-14 record and 1-3 in SB's. The defense carried him in that game because his career ending neck injury had hurt his ability to throw. I believe he had the worst QB rating ever for a winning QB in the Super Bowl 50. Nine times his teams were one and done in the playoffs. Great QB, but not the best QB of his era. It pains me to say this...Tom Brady was (despite being a 6th round pick).

Luck: As you pointed out his injuries shortened his career and he never got to a Super Bowl. He came out in 2012 as the next great QB but RG3 actually beat him out for the Rookie of the Year award. He played in 8 playoff games. His record was 4-4 (12TDs, 13 INT's). In fairness to him, his career was shortened, and may have been able to get this current Colts roster to a SB. But, and argument could be made that the best QB in that class was Russel Wilson, a 3rd round pick.

I think Trevor is great, but there is no guarantee he'll dominate the NFL, won't suffer a career threatening injury (like Manning and Luck) or even be the best QB in the class of 2021. I wouldn't mortgage my team's future for him with all of the holes we have to fill.

[electro's horse]

alright now we've moved on to Elway not being that great because he didn't win EVERY superbowl he went to. 

things are going great in this thread

[Seltzer]

3 minutes ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

Like I said in my thread, there is no point in wasting energy talking about this. There is literally 0% chance that it will happen. We would have to make the worst trade of all time for it to happen. Instead let's be thankful we may have a chance at Sewell, Wilson, Fields and many other great players where we are and not rape ourselves for 1 guy.

The mayor of Jacksonville is openly celebrating the fact they're going to get Lawrence.

No amount of picks, money, etc. is going to make a difference if you don't have a willing trade partner which I don't think Jacksonville is under any circumstances

[panthers55]

16 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

1. The Chiefs traded future picks for Mahomes and that seems to have worked out

2. lmao what does the Bears fuging up and taking titty kisser have to do with anything

They moved up from 27th to 10th which isn't as expensive as moving up from lets say 7th to 1st. And they traded firsts and they got a third and next year's first. So.they didn't give up 2 firsts for him which is what the OP suggested. 

Secondly Mahomes was considered anywhere between the 2nd best and 4th best QB so it wasn't a slam dunk either. We might be very well looking at this draft and saying the same thing about Lawrence as folks are Trubinsky.

[thefuzz]

Jesus Christ.

Winning Super Bowls is hard, really hard, and in the days of the Pats prime, they were winning about 50% of them or appearing in that many from the AFC.  Then you have the Steelers in there, who have been great for decades.

If your QB is talented enough to win 10-12 games per season, he's worth it, even if he doesn't win 3 Lombardi's.  We need to be consistent to have chances at that trophy, and to do that we have seen you need a great QB.  We don't have one.

[Yaboychris28]

If true, Tepper needs to put aside his ego. This is the NFL, not hedge funds. He can’t always get what he wants. 

[electro's horse]

you know who's never lost a super bowl? Trent Dilfer

And he was a first round QB and highly touted. 

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Ben's been in the league for sixteen years, has had good offensive lines and bad, is completely falling apart, has missed entire seasons, and looks godawful now. I'm not sure what the comparison is you're trying to make.

Wilson is a freak. Whatever. I don't know what you can really draw from a case as unique as him. 

You've been saying a lot of stupid things, including Luck was carried by a bunch of players from 2010 that weren't on the team in 2012. I mean I guess 35 year old Reggie Wayne was still there. 

Also the Colts didn't trade any extra picks for Luck?

Just stop responding jesus you're out of your mind

Actually I didn't say those stupid things you did. I said that most times QB who are picked first go to bad teams, Luck didn't. He had talent so going back to the playoffs for a team that went their yearly is not a great fear. And I didn't say anything about the Colts not trading picks. I said given what we know now I wouldn't have traded what the OP said he would trade for Luck or Lawrence. You seem the one making things up or saying what I haven't. If you keep responding how about sricking to the conversation instead of making crap up.

[t96]

32 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Actually I looked it up for clarification  to make sure I was accurate.  He went to 4 probowls but three of those were his first 3 years 2012-2014 and 2018.   But it wasn't as if Indy was depleted of talent  before they drafted Luck. Between 2003 and 2010 the Colts won 10 wins or more. So Luck had talent already and yet he got injured and he was never the same. Sure it can happen to anyone but that is the point. Would I give 2 firsts and other assets away to get Luck and my answer would be no given what we know. And would I do the same for Lawrence with other guys who may be as good or better available at our spot? I wouldn't and hope the Panthers won't either.

The Colts didn't have much talent at all, there's a reason their 2011 season was so disastrous. Manning carried that team all those years. Luck never had an OL even half as good as Cam's OL's here. They invested high picks in weapons for him but they wound up not being very good players. Luck never really had much around him and still played at an elite level and carried them to the playoffs. Their D was trash his entire career there.