Panthers will try to Trevor. Big time.

[mbmasu32]

10 hours ago, FattyFatFat said:

What are you giving up for him? Jax will want a haul. 1st, 2nd, 3rd this year and next? If he’s that once in a generation talent, it’ll take something ridiculous. 

And want David god damn Putney, just because they feel like it.....  sorry, reminded me of a movie 

[stbugs]

6 hours ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but SCO96 makes an excellent point.  I have been watching the NFL for 10 years longer (1969).  It is not a knock on those three QB's, either, but the lack of their teams to build around them.  At best they were one-sided teams (offense only), at worst they were mediocre on one side and worse than that on the other.

Elway was a one-man show in Denver for most of his early career.  That was good enough to get to those three Super Bowls, but then they ran into rather complete teams and got dismantled.  When he had some strong talent around him, he was able to complete the runs with less emphasis on him. 

P. Manning was much the same, although I would say the Colts may have had even less talent around him (especially on the defensive side of the ball).  The year the Colts won it all, their defense went from terrible in the regular season to good in the playoffs. 

Luck had, well, no luck at all.  Generally weak cast, and then the injuries. 

Marino could be on this list.  Great pure passer.  But a great pure passer with sometimes good receivers, nothing resembling a defense, and nothing to show for it.

It really does take a team effort.  Anything less will get exposed, if not before the big game, during it.  You can ask 90's Bills fans or late 80's Broncos fans how it feels to come up just short every time.  It may sound enticing, but I doubt it would make the Huddle very happy if it happened to the Panthers.

I'm not in favor of mortgaging everything to get one player.  We have a lot of needs, and Lawrence on a team with this many holes may just turn out like the late 80's Broncos or the Manning-led Colts.  Those two teams brought home one Lombardi between them, and that was when lightning struck and the bottom 25% defense suddenly played like a top 25% defense for most of four playoff games.

The thing about a few of those QBs you is that they weren’t winning SB(s) in year one or two. Mortgaging the 2021/2022 drafts (not sure it would be as bad as people think IF Jax would trade out, big IF) hurts for the very early years but there’s a lot of time left. Rodgers won in year 6, Peyton in year 9 and 15, Elway in years 15 and 16, Eli in years 4 and 8 and Brees in year 9.

Winning a SB requires some luck and good plays, but it’s not always instantaneous even for the top QBs. One reason is someone like Brady always in your way and the other is that a great QB gets you to the playoffs and gives you a chance. That QB can’t make up for a GW FG or a David Tyree catch or an insides kick.

Getting Lawrence may not make you a complete team in 2021 or 2022 but he’ll give you a chance after a couple years and if lightning strikes win you a SB down the road. Without getting stupid, I’d make a deal in a heartbeat just to know we’d have a great chance at being competitive for years. I’d also stop wasting money and picks.

It’s too bad that the NFL hasn’t started doing protected picks like the NBA. If you had that you could protect against trading two top 5 picks, etc. That said, based on how we played this year and how many chances we had with a good QB, I think we’d have a middle round pick with Lawrence next year.

[LinvilleGorge]

50 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Our first, fourth and teddy. LATER

We'd  surely do that trade in a heartbeat. The Jets or Jags would still be laughing about that offer years from now too.

 

[Byrdman4real]

1 hour ago, bigthama said:

Then we get Fields. Cinci is drafting ahead of us so there's no universe where both Fields and Wilson are taken by #4.

Exactly 

[bigdog10]

52 minutes ago, Verge said:

It would likely take 

2020: 
1st 
2nd 
3rd

2021:
1st 
2nd 
+A player 

That is the ball park. 

I still don’t think that offer would move the jags or jets off the pick. 
 

If it would, I would absolutely be in favor of making that trade if I were Tepper. 

[Cary Kollins]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but maybe we could lessen the draft capital we’d have to give up by offering CMC. This all seems like a pipe dream but fun to speculate. We better not win another g damn game.

[Chief Keek]

10 hours ago, SOJA said:

It would take an insane amount of draft capital for the Jags to give up the pick. The Jets? Maybe they could have been talked into it. But the Jags GM is smart. He's not trading Trevor. 

 

It's time for Panthers fans to face the music. The minute we signed Teddy we screwed our chances of getting Trevor. 

Exactly, Teddy is one of Hurney's final screwjobs to the Panthers. They had a chance to move from one franchise QB directly to another and big brained Marty thought he could "retool".

[Sgt Schultz]

37 minutes ago, stbugs said:

The thing about a few of those QBs you is that they weren’t winning SB(s) in year one or two. Mortgaging the 2021/2022 drafts (not sure it would be as bad as people think IF Jax would trade out, big IF) hurts for the very early years but there’s a lot of time left. Rodgers won in year 6, Peyton in year 9 and 15, Elway in years 15 and 16, Eli in years 4 and 8 and Brees in year 9.

Winning a SB requires some luck and good plays, but it’s not always instantaneous even for the top QBs. One reason is someone like Brady always in your way and the other is that a great QB gets you to the playoffs and gives you a chance. That QB can’t make up for a GW FG or a David Tyree catch or an insides kick.

Getting Lawrence may not make you a complete team in 2021 or 2022 but he’ll give you a chance after a couple years and if lightning strikes win you a SB down the road. Without getting stupid, I’d make a deal in a heartbeat just to know we’d have a great chance at being competitive for years. I’d also stop wasting money and picks.

It’s too bad that the NFL hasn’t started doing protected picks like the NBA. If you had that you could protect against trading two top 5 picks, etc. That said, based on how we played this year and how many chances we had with a good QB, I think we’d have a middle round pick with Lawrence next year.

Do you want to be the one to tell these folks that it could be a 9-15 year wait if we trade the farm to draft Lawrence, and it may not happen at all?  They have themselves convinced it will be next year, two years tops.  Many are spitting on themselves now because a team expected to maybe win 2-4 game has posted 4 wins.

The turnaround is rarely instantaneous, and when it is relatively short (Kansas City with Mahomes), the team around the new QB was pretty solid to start with and just needed someone to push them over the top.  The problem is with the lead time of some of the examples, the team had to completely turn over at least once, and maybe two or three times before it hit critical mass.  That may have been the fourth different version of the Broncos that Elway saw.

Mahomes was set up for success, given the reins of an otherwise pretty solid team in almost every respect.  Most QBs do not inherit that.  As has been pointed out (maybe another thread), the reason so many highly drafted QBs "flunk out" is they were set up for failure from the outset.  They wind up either getting murdered physically back there or they develop bad habits from it that they never shake.  I really don't want to see us get in that cycle.

There is a plan in place, and I trust whatever Rhule and company do.  I know they have shied away from saying it, but it is a complete rebuild and we are early in the process.  But, as you pointed out and others seem to miss, parting with the price it would take to make this trade will make it very likely we are still dry in three years.  In essence, we could be recreating the Cam situation except due to lack of options rather than utter incompetence.  Success would likely have to come in "round two" if at all.

I'd rather take the KC approach and build a solid team first, then do what we need to do to get the guy to take the snaps.

[Proudiddy]

14 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

I expect the Panthers to do everything they possibly can to trade up and land Trevor Lawrence.

Tepper is a long term thinker and landing the best college qb prospect in a decade is the very definition of long term thinking.

Moreover, having a Carolina kid lead this team with such built in fan support is an immediate and substantial cash cow. Can you imagine the mania and jersey sales? My word. 

I feel Trevor is plan a,b, and c for these reasons.

Not gonna lie, I don't blame him.  I've always said, if you can land a guy with whatever assets you give up that outweighs the impact of what you'd be losing out on, it's worth it.  There's no way to get another Trevor from both an on and off field perspective in the next 2 to 3 years if we don't go after him now.  I will hate to see the price tag, but I really feel we are QB and a couple of solid FA pickups away from being a perennial contender.

[Fox007]

We won too many games unfortunately....turns out we should have tanked after all. Now we have to hope that one of the other QBs is like Mahommes or something and just randomly becomes the actual best QB in the last 10 years unlike those in front of him.

[Fox007]

17 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Not gonna lie, I don't blame him.  I've always said, if you can land a guy with whatever assets you give up that outweighs the impact of what you'd be losing out on, it's worth it.  There's no way to get another Trevor from both an on and off field perspective in the next 2 to 3 years if we don't go after him now.  I will hate to see the price tag, but I really feel we are. QB and a couple of solid FA pickups away from being a perennial contender.

A good coaching staff + QB does wonders....look at NE now....they still have good coaches but Tom is playing for another team....how is that talent holding up in NE?

Na it was all Tom and then Bill doing a lot with the little rest he had. We have a good OC and HC....just need a QB now to be good and NE showed this.

[SCO96]

11 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Not gonna lie, I don't blame him.  I've always said, if you can land a guy with whatever assets you give up that outweighs the impact of what you'd be losing out on, it's worth it.  There's no way to get another Trevor from both an on and off field perspective in the next 2 to 3 years if we don't go after him now.  I will hate to see the price tag, but I really feel we are. QB and a couple of solid FA pickups away from being a perennial contender.

This is the type of mindset that baffless me. You're implying that if we don't get Trevor Lawrence this year then all hope is lost for the future. Last I checked he hasn't played a down in the NFL. He's proven nothing. There is no guarantee he will be successful. He has all of the tools, but no player is a sure thing. Over the course of his career I'm certain he won't be the only QB to win a championship.

I posted earlier about the 3 can't miss prospects of my lifetime : Elway, Manning, and Luck. All 3 were great. But, each one competed against players in their era who were drafted after them or were not as highly touted coming out of college that were just as good , if not better, than they were. Neither of the above dominated their era in terms of SB wins. I think it's very possible a guy in this class drafted after Trevor  could end up having a better career, especially if the team is wise enough to build a solid team around him. Something we would  probably not be able to do if we give away several year's worth of #1 ands #2 draft choices.

 

[Jorgie]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Fields is Haskins 2.0 and has bust written all over him. 

Fields is known for his work ethic whereas Haskins is a notorious bum

[Beerfacedlegend]

2 hours ago, bigthama said:

Then we get Fields. Cinci is drafting ahead of us so there's no universe where both Fields and Wilson are taken by #4.

Atl might take him but I’d take that bama qb