Shackling your quarterback

[carolinanimal]

Only way to know is to give him opportunities, no?

NOOOO!!! there is no way we could ever start anyone but delhomme.

he is the best Panthers QB ever!!

All backups suck because they are not starters!!

Look at all there stats from the 2-3 quarters they play a year. it is obvious they will suck for the rest of their nfl career.

We all know that one game makes a career!!

It doesnt matter that Jake was a career backup even in nfl europe before he got the start here.

There is absolutely no way that could happen for moore. We also know that if a rookie qb doesnt come out and have a 125 qb rating with 25 tds and 0 ints in his first few games he sucks!!! come on man you dont know this!!!!

sarcasm off:D

all joking aside, those of you who dont think moore is the answer or just plain hate him or worship delhomme, should jump at the chance for him to start. That we he can prove how much he sucks!! wouldnt that be what you want? i mean delhomme has had the chance to prove he is the 30th ranked qb in the league, why not give moore the chance to show he absolutely sucks??

[grateflday]

Look, when called on Jake was answering the bell. He was making throws at the end.........................

This is the part that pisses me off, its Fox's style and why his time here has run its course. It the dont do anything, keep it close and win it at the end. That leaves NO room for error and it not going to always go your way - hence why this team cant have winning seasons back to back.

Why not do anything with a 14pt lead against one of the best Offenses until the end??!!

[CRA]

Sadly the QB's on the bench are worse and the only guy that might have been able to come in and win was put on IR because the HC/GM panicked that Moore might have to play.

there is nothing to support your assumption.

it would be hard to argue any backup in the NFL could come into Carolina and play 8 games as poorly or been a non factor as much as Jake has done this year. The 2003-2008 Jake Delhomme can't be factored in to any comparison at this point......and that is the main bulk of the arguement for those saying the bench is worse. Feely was never 2009 Jake bad. Moore wasn't 2009 Jake bad in 3 starts as a rookie w/ a small playbook.

[rayzor]

we don't know for a fact that the QBs on the bench are worse or would do worse than jake has done this year.

we can't go on the assumption that fox is going to have the best man for the job in either. anyone thinking that he doesn't have loyalty issues is not really thinking clearly.

people thinking that there isn't any other way than jake this year are thinking with their heart instead of their head...and that goes for fans, coaches, and players on the team as well.

mr. scot is right. the gameplan that they have been employing is done to protect the team from mistakes made by the QB. this is something that is understandable if the QB is new to playing on the pro level or new to a system. it shouldn't be used for an aged vet simply because it implies that the vet isn't capable of doing much without a high chance of error.

i can understand people making decisions with the view point of "better the devil you know than the one you don't" but when that devil is suffocating you, you might want to take your chances with another.

[Mesmer]

Why not do anything with a 14pt lead against one of the best Offenses until the end??!!

Because John Fox doesn't play to win. He plays "not to lose".

Playing to win is about keeping the pedal pressed down until victory. It's about not allowing the opposition to exploit any of the critical points in a game where they can gain momentum.

John Fox is so afraid of messing up that he goes into a shell, and then loses the game because of it.

This may have worked when passing the ball was considered a trick play, but this is 2009. It's beyond painfully obvious that to be a winner in this league, you simply have to have a killer instinct.

[uncpanther]

We will probably never know what Moore can do unless Jake gets hurt. It's a shame, we need a QB and they are worried they will lose their jobs if they start someone other than Jake and they fail. We need to be trying to fix this position instead of adjusting plays to compensate for Jake's problems.

We could have a starter in Moore and never even know it as long as Fox is calling the shots. (Which he wont be next year at this rate)

Best thing we could do right now is just see what we have on the bench, I don't care who it is but just let them play and see what happens. This season is a bust anyway.

The worst thing that can happen is they play like crap and we know we need to totally revamp all QB positions after this season, best case we find our new starter for no draft pick or cap hit and may even be able to salvage this year.

Just look at Tom Brady, if Drew Bledsoe would have never gotten hurt (or benched I can't remember at the moment) and he never got a chance to start he could still be on the bench or on a different team or not even in the league anymore. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut and take a chance on people. This would be that time.

[carolinarolls]

I tend to agree. Especially since I believe that Jake has been shackled throughout most of his time here.

[Mr. Scot]

we don't know for a fact that the QBs on the bench are worse or would do worse than jake has done this year.

we can't go on the assumption that fox is going to have the best man for the job in either. anyone thinking that he doesn't have loyalty issues is not really thinking clearly.

people thinking that there isn't any other way than jake this year are thinking with their heart instead of their head...and that goes for fans, coaches, and players on the team as well.

mr. scot is right. the gameplan that they have been employing is done to protect the team from mistakes made by the QB. this is something that is understandable if the QB is new to playing on the pro level or new to a system. it shouldn't be used for an aged vet simply because it implies that the vet isn't capable of doing much without a high chance of error.

i can understand people making decisions with the view point of "better the devil you know than the one you don't" but when that devil is suffocating you, you might want to take your chances with another.

Pretty much.

This season reminds me of the 2006 season, honestly, though the impetus behind it is different. In 2006, the offense had to go to short, quick passes because the line had two starters banged up and couldn't keep anyone out. This year, we're doing the same thing, but the heart of the problem is Delhomme. In both cases, it took away the best part of Delhomme's game.

As to Moore, truth be told, Moore being bad would be something of a self-fulfilling prophecy right now. He rarely practices with the number ones, so should he come in he'd likely look rusty. Fox would then say "see, I was right" and go back to doing what he's doing.

Bottom line for me: I don't believe we can beat good teams with a limited Jake at the helm. I seriously doubt we can beat them with a limited Moore at the helm either.

Could we beat them with Moore wide open? I don't know. As sad as it is, "I don't know" is more positive than "I seriously doubt it". And it's a sign of just how far my confidence in the team has slipped that I'm now willing to settle for "I don't know" as the best option.

[carolinanimal]

We've all heard the saying:

The most popular person in town is the backup QB

As much as I think Jake is a helluva guy and has done enough for the team that he deserves his name in the Ring of Honor, I know he has to go and sooner rather than later.

But I'm not convinced that Jake isn't the best option right now. I dont see anything in the way Moore plays that will keep that 8th or even 9th guy out of the box. And you can bet your ass that every D-Coord will run press man and put everyone else in to stop the run if Moore takes the field. The ONLY thing we have going for us is the run game and to make a move at QB that would make it harder for D Will and J Stew just doesn't make much sense.

If Moore is better at this point its not going to be the change that Pete to Delhomme was.

dont they do this agianst delhomme now???

[uncpanther]

We've all heard the saying:

The most popular person in town is the backup QB

As much as I think Jake is a helluva guy and has done enough for the team that he deserves his name in the Ring of Honor, I know he has to go and sooner rather than later.

But I'm not convinced that Jake isn't the best option right now. I dont see anything in the way Moore plays that will keep that 8th or even 9th guy out of the box. And you can bet your ass that every D-Coord will run press man and put everyone else in to stop the run if Moore takes the field. The ONLY thing we have going for us is the run game and to make a move at QB that would make it harder for D Will and J Stew just doesn't make much sense.

If Moore is better at this point its not going to be the change that Pete to Delhomme was.

We will never know unless he gets some playing time.

I would not be surprised if Moore or Feeley could play better than Jake ATM. They both have been in games and have some game experience. We should try our options at this point. We will not make the playoffs with Jake.

[carolinanimal]

These 2 videos explain it all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFsgsl_t_U

[rayzor]

We've all heard the saying:

The most popular person in town is the backup QB

As much as I think Jake is a helluva guy and has done enough for the team that he deserves his name in the Ring of Honor, I know he has to go and sooner rather than later.

But I'm not convinced that Jake isn't the best option right now. I dont see anything in the way Moore plays that will keep that 8th or even 9th guy out of the box. And you can bet your ass that every D-Coord will run press man and put everyone else in to stop the run if Moore takes the field. The ONLY thing we have going for us is the run game and to make a move at QB that would make it harder for D Will and J Stew just doesn't make much sense.

If Moore is better at this point its not going to be the change that Pete to Delhomme was.

how is what you are saying will happen if moore was at the helm any different than what is happening with jake right now? jake is not a threat. smith isn't a real threat anymore. they don't respect the passing game because they don't respect jake. they don't have any reason to because they know what we all know...that jake just can't cut it anymore. they know the team doesn't have any real faith in him which is why they limit the passing. the run game became totally ineffective against the saints because they knew that all the panthers were going to do was run.

jake is the known. matt moore is the unknown. why not go with the unknown if you know that the other option is going to hold you back? one reason....fear. you are too afraid of the unknown. as limited as you are with jake, you feel comfortable with him. you are too afraid to go out of your comfort zone.

the whole situation reminds me of cooking frogs. you can't throw them in the boiling water cause they'll just jump out. you have to put them in cool water and let them get used to it and then raise the temperature slowly. they keep getting used to it and have no idea that at some point the water is going to get so hot it kills you. that is what is happening in carolina. the water's getting warmer...it is what it is.

Pretty much.

This season reminds me of the 2006 season, honestly, though the impetus behind it is different. In 2006, the offense had to go to short, quick passes because the line had two starters banged up and couldn't keep anyone out. This year, we're doing the same thing, but the heart of the problem is Delhomme. In both cases, it took away the best part of Delhomme's game.

As to Moore, truth be told, Moore being bad would be something of a self-fulfilling prophecy right now. He rarely practices with the number ones, so should he come in he'd likely look rusty. Fox would then say "see, I was right" and go back to doing what he's doing.

Bottom line for me: I don't believe we can beat good teams with a limited Jake at the helm. I seriously doubt we can beat them with a limited Moore at the helm either.

Could we beat them with Moore wide open? I don't know. As sad as it is, "I don't know" is more positive than "I seriously doubt it". And it's a sign of just how far my confidence in the team has slipped that I'm now willing to settle for "I don't know" as the best option.

the team is planning for failure. they are a deer caught in headlights. they know disaster is heading right for them but they are too afraid to move out of the way. doesn't matter which way you go as long as you get out of the way. a little chance of success is better than no chance of it.

[carolinanimal]

when i watch moore, it is his pocket presence, his progressions that i like. Ron Jaworski raved over his mechanics coming out of college and has said so several times. also the fact that he is still young. if we hook our train to jake, eventually he will decline, he cant get any better than mediocre, basically jake has no upside. he is 35 and on the back end of his career. fox would play him until he is 40. we all know foxs mentality on drafting a qb, and i somewhat agree. but not risking a least a 3rd on a qb ever!!?? we all know that to win in this league you need a qb. the colts were irrelavent untill they got peyton, steelers got big ben, arizona got warner, patriots tom brady , and so on and so on.

[rayzor]

Like I started out saying, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm missing something.

Ive seen every minute that Matt has played and I don't see a world beater. But if calling for him is a "how could it be any worse" reaction I'm ok with it, I just wanted to know if I'd missed something.

we don't know for sure because we haven't really seen what he can do given a real chance after having a couple years in the system under his belt.

he wasn't bad in '07 FOR A ROOKIE who came in without having the benefit of training camp with your team. remember that he didn't have a good run game to help him out. he didn't have a good Oline to protect him. he didn't really have much in the way of receivers. he had smith, king, and rosario (who showed up in those last couple games big time because he was given a chance). he also had colbert and carter...both of whom had slick hands.

in pre-season none of the team looked all that good and who did he have to play with?

against the eagles the game was out of control and the players heads weren't in it. they were down to their third QB on the day. that wasn't exactly a situation that you can throw anyone in and expect salvation. the oline was pathetic and the receivers weren't able to catch, not to forget that we were so far behind there was no question that we were going to be throwing. all they had to do is sit back in the secondary and wait.

against the cardinals...they were going to be sticking with the same game plan...just run the ball and run the clock. he was only given one opportunity to throw. so he overthrew it...it isn't like jake hasn't done that a million times.

in your eyes moore may not look like a world beater and he very well might not be, but really have we given him a real chance to find out?

we know we don't have a world beater in jake but then you might say that in our system you don't really need one. well, why wouldn't that work with putting moore in or giving him a chance? we know this year that more often than not, we aren't going to win with jake. we know what direction we are going. why not try something different? why not go out on a limb? why not take the risk?