Joe Person on Marty Hurney situation

[Soul Rebel]

I see Hurney staying on with the org, but not as GM. Someone like Tepper can't make a statement about mediocrity and then allow Hurney's sub-.500 record and his (once again) mismanagement of assets like Bradberry and Moton come to a head like they have. 

I really...really...really hope Jeff Ireland is not the replacement. He ruined the Dolphins during his tenure and I remember him being in the middle of some drama. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Soul Rebel said:

I see Hurney staying on with the org, but not as GM. Someone like Tepper can't make a statement about mediocrity and then allow Hurney's sub-.500 record and his (once again) mismanagement of assets like Bradberry and Moton come to a head like they have. 

I really...really...really hope Jeff Ireland is not the replacement. He ruined the Dolphins during his tenure and I remember him being in the middle of some drama. 

Since leaving the Dolphins, Ireland has spent the last several years running the draft in New Orleans. Their drafts with him have been stellar, and as a result Ireland went from a temporary consultant all the way up to their Assistant GM in charge of college scouting.

There are other good options mind you, but I question whether anybody that isn't connected to Matt Rhule will have a legitimate shot (Ireland is a Baylor graduate; he and Rhule are friends).

[Car123]

So Rhule doesn’t want full control? Tell that to the Huddle boys.

[Mr. Scot]

Part of the genesis of Person's article was a mention of Marty Hurney in an article by The Athletic's Washington writer Ben Standig. I decided to check out Standig's article too (link)

This is what it said about Marty:

Quote

A GM with authority would likely get to hire his own staff. Maybe, but after Washington fired two members of the pro personnel department this summer, the replacements included pro scouting director Eric Stokes, who worked with Rivera in Carolina. The steady flow of ex-Panthers to Washington is why keeping tabs on Carolina GM Marty Hurney’s future is warranted.

The primary topic of the article is Kyle Smith, Washington's Director of Player Personnel Kyle Smith and the son of former Chargers GM AJ Smith. It sounds like Smith is a pretty strong candidate for Washington's GM job, but that doesn't necessarily mean Marty is out of the picture up there.

Buuuuuttt...

Quote

Rivera often peppers his responses to reporters’ questions with excitement, which is why some took note of a seemingly lukewarm answer to a question about his relationship with Smith.

“I think it’s pretty good,” Rivera said. “We work through the things that we need to work through, and that’s probably the biggest thing. If something comes up, we’ll communicate it. If not, there’s not much else to communicate.” As for Smith’s role moving forward, Rivera said, “I think he’s done a nice job for us. Again, as we continue to go forward, I think the big thing more so than anything else is we’ve got to make sure we’re all on the same page.”

Aside from that, there's this note of interest:

Quote

Rivera preaches collaboration and has lived up to that pledge so far. He also made it clear at his introductory news conference that Snyder sold him on building the football structure around the coach, similar to approaches deployed by current contenders, including the Chiefs and Seahawks, both recent Super Bowl winners.

“I took this job for one simple reason. Because Dan Snyder came to me with a very interesting perspective,” Rivera said. “… Not an owner’s-centered approach or a team president or a GM, but a coach-centered approach. I told Mr. Snyder that I appreciate the fact that he believes the head coach matters.”

So basically, Rivera has in Washington what Rhule wants in Carolina.

I'd add also that a few of the things I've read since Rivera headed to DC gave me the impression he was very happy to have roster control, and that maybe he wasn't necessarily all that happy with the person who had roster control at his previous job. If so, that might not bode well for Marty getting a new job in Washington.

(not that this would mean he's sticking around here either)

[Snake]

I doubt Marty goes to Washington. I doubt he goes anywhere if fired. 

[Soul Rebel]

18 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Since leaving the Dolphins, Ireland has spent the last several years running the draft in New Orleans. Their drafts with him have been stellar, and as a result Ireland went from a temporary consultant all the way up to their Assistant GM in charge of college scouting.

There are other good options mind you, but I question whether anybody that isn't connected to Matt Rhule will have a legitimate shot (Ireland is a Baylor graduate; he and Rhule are friends).

Interesting on the Baylor/Rhule connection....didn't realize that.

I really liked that NO draft where they got Lattimore, Ramczyk, etc.... and a few other of their drafts. I've also been happy that he wasn't my GM on that year they made the Davenport trade that essentially wiped out the next draft for them.... and if IIRC, Davenport was hurt most of his first year or two in the league. 

I want someone that is a solid evaluator, brings in talent that fits the team's coaching style and schemes, while also tapping the correct FAs and letting the incorrect fits walk, all while being fiscally responsible. 

After hearing that Ireland and Rhule are friends, I can't imagine the latter looking elsewhere if he has his way based on what we've seen thus far with coaches and players.

[Cary Kollins]

Jesus please take Hurney from us Ron. Those poor bastards won’t know what’s coming. 

[Mr. Scot]

55 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

Interesting on the Baylor/Rhule connection....didn't realize that.

I really liked that NO draft where they got Lattimore, Ramczyk, etc.... and a few other of their drafts. I've also been happy that he wasn't my GM on that year they made the Davenport trade that essentially wiped out the next draft for them.... and if IIRC, Davenport was hurt most of his first year or two in the league. 

I want someone that is a solid evaluator, brings in talent that fits the team's coaching style and schemes, while also tapping the correct FAs and letting the incorrect fits walk, all while being fiscally responsible. 

After hearing that Ireland and Rhule are friends, I can't imagine the latter looking elsewhere if he has his way based on what we've seen thus far with coaches and players.

Well, there is an "in house" candidate with a Matt Rhule connection too, Player Personnel Director Pat Stewart.

He and Rhule go all the way back to Coastal Carolina . Plus he's already in the building and already familiar with how the Panthers operate.

The downside: way less experience than Ireland, and thus harder to evaluate. Among other things, he's never run a draft that I know of. 

My personal feeling? Promoting Stewart basically handing Matt Rhule the keys. Now if rule is genuinely that good, okay. Personally though, I'd feel more comfortable having somebody with a longer resume and a history of success.

We'll see what happens.

[SizzleBuzz]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

We'll see what happens.

Yes we will...

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 12/16/2020 at 3:11 AM, Mr. Scot said:

Not wanting to be the GM doesn't mean you don't want to be the center of things.

Rhule has stated specifically that he believes a coach centered approach is the best thing for a team to have.

Now you bring up a thought.  We bicker back and forth over which QB we should select in round 1.  Lawrence and Fields are gone.  That's pretty much a given.  

If you are Rhule, what QB would you take?  Based on the traits he likes.  I would think Wilson, Lance and Trask in that order.   If we go a different direction in round 1.  What second round pick has the traits he wants.  Fast, Smart and Athletic.  Is there a gem in round 2 or 3 that fits this mold?

[BrianS]

3 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Lawrence and Fields are gone.  That's pretty much a given.  

If you are Rhule, what QB would you take?  Based on the traits he likes.  I would think Wilson, Lance and Trask in that order.   If we go a different direction in round 1.  What second round pick has the traits he wants.  Fast, Smart and Athletic.  Is there a gem in round 2 or 3 that fits this mold?

I actually don't think it's a given that Fields is gone.  Yes, Lawrence is gone.  Even if he throws a fit and forces the Jets not to take him, I think the Jags will take him . . . . SOMEONE will take Lawrence either directly or thru trade in the first three picks.

However, Wilson has been steadily gaining ground on Fields.  Some folks think that it's a coin flip between those two.  I don't think Lance is in the conversation if you're looking for a passer, which we are.  I think you're looking at Fields, Wilson and potentially Trask.  While Trask is a Florida QB which historically hasn't translated, the non-translating QB's from there have always been Spurrier QB's, which Trask is not.

[Ricky Spanish]

6 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Now you bring up a thought.  We bicker back and forth over which QB we should select in round 1.  Lawrence and Fields are gone.  That's pretty much a given.  

If you are Rhule, what QB would you take?  Based on the traits he likes.  I would think Wilson, Lance and Trask in that order.   If we go a different direction in round 1.  What second round pick has the traits he wants.  Fast, Smart and Athletic.  Is there a gem in round 2 or 3 that fits this mold?

Give me Fields/Wilson. Don't care who. Pick which one is available.

I think Fields' skillset would fit our offense tremendously. OSU runs a similar scheme and he has more big play ability than Teddy.

I like Wilson's potential and swagger. Dude is confident in every throw he makes. The swagger honestly reminds me of Mahomes and Rodgers - Like he expects every throw to work because that's what it's supposed to do.

[JJman Returns]

Roster construction should be the coaches job. Finances should be handled by the GM, drafting should be a mixture of coaches and scouts. 

[Mr. Scot]

20 minutes ago, JJman Returns said:

Roster construction should be the coaches job. Finances should be handled by the GM, drafting should be a mixture of coaches and scouts. 

In a typical setup, iIt's a mix.

Once you have the players, the head coach and his staff are going to be the ones who set the depth chart, decide who's worth keeping and who isn't.

But scouting both pro players and college players is a full time job in itself. Coaches can devote some time to that, but they also have game planning and their actual coaching duties as first priority. 

That, plus as Floyd Reese once said,  they're not necessarily trained in scouting. Reese and other personnel people hated it when a coach would fall in love with a player off of a single highlight or game and not look at the whole picture.

Of course, there are those times when coaches are fully familiar with a player because they coached them before (in college or the pros) or in some cases because they coached against them. There are examples of both of these for Matt Rhule on the current roster.

And the coaches do set the schemes, then based on that they decide what type of player they want. The scouting staff and the personnel people then have the job of scouring the pro and college ranks looking for the best examples of that type of player.

So time wise, it works out that offseason roster building is the responsibility of the personnel department overseen by the GM. Basically, the GM and his people put together a pool of players that you take to training camp, and the coaches whittle that pool down to a roster.

Personnel decisions made after training camp and through the remainder of the season tend to be done by the coaches, though the GM typically oversees weekly workouts, waiver wire checks and things of that sort. He may also offer his opinion on personnel decisions, but as often ss not they defer to the coach's will.

Breaking it down to its simplest terms, the process looks like this:

Coach: I want these kinds of players

GM: I worked through the draft and free agency and got you these guys

Coach: Could you also get this guy, I like him

GM: Sure

Coach: Okay, I'm going to keep this guy and this guy and this guy but I don't like this guy so much so let's get rid of him

GM: Okay, also this guy just got cut loose from somewhere else and you might like him too

Coach: Cool, bring him in and we'll check him out

...and so on and so on.

As long as you've got guys who know what they're doing and work together well, it can all turn out good in the end.

If you don't, welp...