Joe Person on Marty Hurney situation

[TheSpecialJuan]

https://nfltraderumors.co/nfc-notes-buccaneers-panthers-saints-jameis-winston/

[Tbe]

Sooo.....nothing new

[Mr. Scot]

It's actually quoting an article in The Athletic.

Gonna take a few minutes and read it...

[TheSpecialJuan]

[Basbear]

Im surprised Joe feels Rhule doesn't want to be both GM and coach, cause I feel the opposite. I called Rhule being the GM early after he got the herniay school this past year. Rhule has the Parcells feel to me of wanting control. Looking for his "jersey" guys, Rhule always talks that up.  

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

Im surprised Joe feels Rhule doesn't want to be both GM and coach, cause I feel the opposite. I called Rhule being the GM early after he got the herniay school this past year. Rhule has the Parcells feel to me of wanting control. Looking for his "jersey" guys, Rhule always talks that up.  

Not wanting to be the GM doesn't mean you don't want to be the center of things.

Rhule has stated specifically that he believes a coach centered approach is the best thing for a team to have.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Im surprised Joe feels Rhule doesn't want to be both GM and coach, cause I feel the opposite. I called Rhule being the GM early after he got the herniay school this past year. Rhule has the Parcells feel to me of wanting control. Looking for his "jersey" guys, Rhule always talks that up.  

The only thing better than having full control on paper is having full control behind the scenes with a patsy waiting to be the fall guy if need be. Not saying that's the case, but it wouldn't shock me if that's basically what's going on.

[Basbear]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not wanting to be the GM doesn't mean you don't want to be the center of things.

Rhule has stated specifically that he believes a coach centered approach is the best thing for a team to have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sghO00kWgV4

 

That feels like Rhule looking for his type of guy. 

[Mr. Scot]

One thing the rumor site misquotes (or words awkwardly): Hurney wasn't lauded for having "pro scouting experience". Person refers to him having experience scouting at the pro level.

David Tepper actually acknowledged that the pro scouting side of things is a weakness for Marty. That's why he wanted to bring somebody aboard who had experience at that sort of thing.

[Mr. Scot]

Here's some excerpts from the actual article:

Quote

Asked in September about a possible extension for Hurney, Tepper said: “There’s been too much to do to have those conversations. You should ask me that question later on.”

The Athletic tried to broach the subject Monday with Tepper, who declined to comment through a team spokesman, as did Hurney. While there’s a sense around the league that this could be Hurney’s final season in Carolina — at least in the GM role — sources inside the organization say Tepper is still evaluating the situation.

"No comment" wouldn't exactly make me feel safe in his spot. That Hurney himself also declined comment is...interesting.

 

Quote

In addition to a new owner, Hurney is also working with a new coach, Matt Rhule, who in January became one of the league’s highest-paid coaches despite only one year of previous NFL experience. With Rhule’s reported seven-year, $62 million deal (with incentives that could push it to $70 million) comes a powerful voice in personnel decisions and other football-related matters.

Rhule and Hurney have said they have a good relationship, something that team sources confirm. But Rhule’s influence can be seen up and down the Panthers’ roster, which includes 11 players whom Rhule coached at Temple or Baylor (counting the practice squad).

Rhule’s coaching staff also is dotted with his former Temple and Baylor assistants, including defensive coordinator Phil Snow and senior offensive assistant Jeff Nixon. Rhule also added former colleagues in the front office, most notably player personnel director Pat Stewart, who worked with Rhule when both were young Western Carolina assistants. The sense among NFL insiders is Rhule may eventually want to bring in someone he knows as GM — or someone younger than Hurney.

Stewart would be a pretty obvious choice for a replacement, though not my favorite. I think there are better qualified candidates with connections to Rhule (most notably Jeff Ireland) but a guy like Stewart is probably more consistent with a "coach centric" approach..

 

Quote

While Tepper may have reset the market for head coaches with Rhule’s mega-deal, the $13 billion hedge fund manager also has a genuine respect for Hurney, calling him “an excellent evaluator of college talent.”

In establishing the chain of command after Rhule was hired, Tepper wanted personnel decisions to be a collaborative effort between the coach and general manager, sources said. Hurney’s extensive scouting background was a boost to a first-year coaching staff that was light on pro experience.

This is the part the rumor site misrepresented in their summary.
 

Quote

The free-agent acquisitions have been more of a mixed lot, many signed on the cheap because of the $50 million in dead cap space the Panthers absorbed. While wideout Robby Anderson has outperformed his two-year, $20 million deal and guard John Miller has been a dependable starter, others (Tahir Whitehead, Stephen Weatherly) have not panned out.

Also worth noting: Many of the veterans whom Rhule and Hurney cut or let walk in free agency — including Cam Newton, Greg Olsen, Gerald McCoy and Bruce Irvin — have been ineffective, injured or both. (James Bradberry and Graham Gano are notable exceptions.)

Anderson was most closely connected to Rhule more so than Hurney. Likewise, Rasul Douglas was suggested by Pat Stewart,
 

Quote

Hurney’s history of hitting on his high draft picks would be among the reasons to retain him, especially if the Panthers wind up with a top-10 pick. Chinn, a second-round pick from Southern Illinois, looks like he’ll follow Julius Peppers, Thomas Davis, Newton, Luke Kuechly and others in a long line of early-round picks Hurney hit on.

They haven’t all worked out. The 2019 draft class has yet to yield an impact player other than edge rusher Brian Burns. Second-round pick Greg Little has been inactive the past two weeks, while third-rounder Will Grier is the No. 3 quarterback behind Teddy Bridgewater and P.J. Walker, the former undrafted free agent out of Temple who won his only start this season.

That's the story of a lot of our drafts.

 

Quote

Though Beane secured his future in Buffalo last week, there are already four GM openings — in Atlanta, Houston, Detroit and Jacksonville. That doesn’t include Washington, where former Panthers coach Ron Rivera has served as the de facto general manager in his first season with the club.

If Washington decides to hire a GM, Hurney’s ties to Rivera and the organization can’t be ignored. Hurney got his NFL start with the Washington Football Team after first covering it as a local sportswriter.

But for now, Hurney remains in Charlotte, scouting college players and working with Rhule on personnel issues. While Rhule has a strong say in roster decisions, he has no interest in adding GM duties to his plate, according to sources. Tepper could always look to keep Hurney in a senior advisory role and bring in a new GM, though it’s unclear whether Hurney would be amenable to such an arrangement.

The Panthers did a similar thing to Don Gregory, "promoting" him out of a lot of his duties. It's not hard to imagine that happening to Hurney, but as Person says he'd have to agree to it. Hurney has stated before that he loves being in charge of the team. Would he still love being there with someone else in charge? Unknown.

Story Link here: Marty Hurney's future uncertain (subscription required)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gun to my head? It's not certain, but overall I think someone else will be sitting in the GM chair next season.

Personally, I don't see any great value in keeping Marty around as an advisor or a consultant or some such...except to soothe his ego. I've theorized before that Marty might "retire" rather than be seen to be replaced.

Either way, Hurney's departure would help me feel like the stink of Jerry Richardson is finally gone from this franchise.

Guess we'll see what happens.

[Jared Patterson]

oooooouuuuu bring in Jef Ireland and Marcus Williams 

[FuFuLamePoo]

I'm actually totally fine with letting Rhule run the show, it literally can not be worse than letting Marty Hurney have any sort of power. I still am a huge believer in Rhule and think that this team has over performed in a lot of ways this season

[MHS831]

Oh yeah, well Hurney sucks. 

Did anyone mention that?  heard it here first.

(Nah, this is encouraging--sounds like Hurney is the new coffee boy)

[SizzleBuzz]

4 hours ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

https://nfltraderumors.co/nfc-notes-buccaneers-panthers-saints-jameis-winston/

Nothing new in there.

KEY PASSAGE:  "...Hurney and Rhule have a good working relationship and have done a good job executing on the collaborative vision Tepper had when he kept Hurney on board."

INTERPRETED:  Note the language underlined above.  This is a perfect description of how things work within the Appaloosa model Tepper has overlaid onto the Panthers.  Hurney & Rhule are co-PM's who are executing a strategy that was collaboratively developed by all three men, and ultimately blessed by Tepper.

KEY PASSAGE:  "Person adds Rhule has no interest in being both coach and general manager himself."

INTERPRETED:  Within the Appaloosa model Rhule will/would never have that option, ever.  Take whatever Rhule may have said before he agreed to a deal with Tepper and throw it right out the window.  Tepper laid down the parameters for Rhule and then kept stacking million-dollar bills in the table until Matt said yes.  (3 attaboys to whomever can name the man paraphrased in italics there...hint: he had a BIG hand in building Charlotte!)

 

Here's a nugget that isn't covered in the article --- today on Bailey's show he straight-away asked Person what he was hearing around the league as to who Tepper might be considering/targeting as a GM --- Person had absolutely nothing. 

In the Appaloosa model there isn't a traditional "GM" position within the org chart --- those responsibilities reside with the guy at the top and that guy will always be Tepper.