"Great Evaluator of talent"

[SizzleBuzz]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Throw in that Matt Rhule has a seven year contract while, barring news that right now nobody much is expecting, Marty is employed by the Panthers until June... maybe.

I am taking the other side of your trade and predict Marty will remain with the Panthers for years to come.

As previously stated, his title is "GM" but he hasn't functioned as such in the traditional sense (think Lynch/Beane) since Tepper took over....he's a hybrid senior-manager/scout/PR-guy....but he is also part of the Office of the Chairman and I expect that to remain the case as long as he is with the Panthers.

Only time will tell if Tepper chooses to add to the Office of the Chairman...but right now it's a triumvirate.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

I am taking the other side of your trade and predict Marty will remain with the Panthers for years to come.

As previously stated, his title is "GM" but he hasn't functioned as such in the traditional sense (think Lynch/Beane) since Tepper took over....he's a hybrid senior-manager/scout/PR-guy....but he is also part of the Office of the Chairman and I expect that to remain the case as long as he is with the Panthers.

I'm not so sure he remains at all, but if he does I doubt it's as GM or in any position that carries real power.

[DaveThePanther2008]

8 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

I am taking the other side of your trade and predict Marty will remain with the Panthers for years to come.

As previously stated, his title is "GM" but he hasn't functioned as such in the traditional sense (think Lynch/Beane) since Tepper took over....he's a hybrid senior-manager/scout/PR-guy....but he is also part of the Office of the Chairman and I expect that to remain the case as long as he is with the Panthers.

Only time will tell if Tepper chooses to add to the Office of the Chairman...but right now it's a triumvirate.

So are you implying that Tepper is making the decision on who we draft and who we sign in free agency.  That regardless of who the GM is Tepper is actually the one making the decision?

[Cpt slay a ho]

Whoever signed off on the teddy signing should be in hot water if this is how he performs next year, which based off his history there’s nothing to indicate otherwise.

gm is low on my list of worries currently 

Sidenote if some believe Rhule is the end all be all decision maker for roster moves why does it matter if hurney is the gm only in title ? Some of this hurney hate is ass backwards 

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Whoever signed off on the teddy signing should be in hot water if this is how he performs next year, which based off his history there’s nothing to indicate otherwise.

gm is low on my list of worries currently 

Sidenote if some believe Rhule is the end all be all decision maker for roster moves why does it matter if hurney is the gm only in title ? Some of this hurney hate is ass backwards 

If that's all he is, what's the point of keeping him (and paying him)?

Defending Marty after all these years of losing is pretty laughable.

[SizzleBuzz]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not so sure he remains at all, but if he does I doubt it's as GM or in any position that carries real power.

We are on opposite side of the trade in terms of the stay/go decision on Marty.

We are on the same side of the trade in terms of his authority/power...

...the thing is, that trade has already played out -- he currently has no discretionary power of consequence and hasn't since Tepper took over.

[LinvilleGorge]

Too bad Marty didn't see what everyone else saw...

Losers

Greg Little, OT, Mississippi: Scouts were hoping the Ole Miss product would display impressive athletic attributes as a potential franchise left tackle. However, Little provided more questions than answers in a dismal showing that included poor postings in the 40 (5.33) and the vertical jump (25 inches) -- and he did not participate in the bench press. With Little also laboring through on-field drills, the big-bodied blocker will have to provide a better showing at his pro day (March 29).

[LinvilleGorge]

Such an odd marriage between Tepper who is supposedly hyper-analytical and Hurney who is, well...

 

 

[Cpt slay a ho]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If that's all he is, what's the point of keeping him (and paying him)?

Defending Marty after all these years of losing is pretty laughable.

That’s a tepper question as a fan idc if he’s paid to be a figurehead, if Rhule is making the final decisions than it doesn’t matter who’s gm in name 

[SizzleBuzz]

8 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

So are you implying that Tepper is making the decision on who we draft and who we sign in free agency.  That regardless of who the GM is Tepper is actually the one making the decision?

No, that's not what I'm saying --- not even close.

What I am saying is Tepper has installed a new collaborative evaluation process/system whereby important decisions (e.g., higher draft picks; cut the long-term QB; commit $33M guaranteed to the new QB; big contract to new O.C., etc) are made collectively. 

In this system after all the proper information is evaluated 99% of the time the prudent decision will naturally emerge and all will agree on it.  In the rare instance that consensus cannot be reached on an important decision Tepper is the only one with the power to unilaterally make the decision he believes to be best. 

I suspect this has never happened as it goes to an important player personnel decision since he has owned the team*... in fact, I'd bet the odds are better that the opposite has happened where Tepper was on the other side of Rhule & Hurney but let them have their way.  EDIT: As I think about it there is one player who I wonder about being forced on Ron and Marty...this particular player was exited when Rhule was signed.

In this system on the less important decisions (e.g., fringe players, special teams players, practice squad players, specialty/assistant coaches, etc.) Hurney & Rhule are free to act without Tepper's involvement --- but again, the same collaborative evaluation process/system is used and the decisions are still made collectively, just with a different set of people at the table.

This idea that Hurney is somehow up on a pedestal dictating draft picks and key cuts and big trades and monster contracts and just saying "ok here you go, deal with it".....is just ludicrous.

*NOTE:  The same cannot be said of Mike Jordan.

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

Take a look at the attached spreadsheet I did based off of Hurney's draft picks.

This obviously is my opinion and for the most part most of you should agree. 

Gold are our great players.  Not many considering 14 years worth of draft picks.   I did not include Burns, Brown, Chinn or YGM due to they are fairly young. 

Green are good players

Tan were serviceable players

Blue were players that performed better with other teams.  Technically they could be considered red but that was on us for not giving them the chance.

Red were worthless picks.

Outside of the 1st round which I had 100% (including Otah who was good when he played but soft overall)

Most other rounds we were between 55% and 60% in rounds 2 through 4 and  50% or less in rounds 5 through 7.

My conclusion is our draft choices under Hurney reflect why we are mediocre at best. 

Hands down our best draft was 2020 and surprisingly this was more on Rhule than Hurney.

Hurney Draft Picks.xlsx

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Take a look at the attached spreadsheet I did based off of Hurney's draft picks.

This obviously is my opinion and for the most part most of you should agree. 

Gold are our great players.  Not many considering 14 years worth of draft picks.   I did not include Burns, Brown, Chinn or YGM due to they are fairly young. 

Green are good players

Tan were serviceable players

Blue were players that performed better with other teams.  Technically they could be considered red but that was on us for not giving them the chance.

Red were worthless picks.

Outside of the 1st round which I had 100% (including Otah who was good when he played but soft overall)

Most other rounds we were between 55% and 60% in rounds 2 through 4 and  50% or less in rounds 5 through 7.

My conclusion is our draft choices under Hurney reflect why we are mediocre at best. 

Hands down our best draft was 2020 and surprisingly this was more on Rhule than Hurney.

Hurney Draft Picks.xlsx 12.57 kB · 1 download

I am no Hurney defender by any means but you might want to adjust your spreadsheet based on the average player from each round. I would suggest using PFR's Career AV.

[DaveThePanther2008]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am no Hurney defender by any means but you might want to adjust your spreadsheet based on the average player from each round. I would suggest using PFR's Career AV.

I don't think this is far off.  Some players stayed with the team for a couple of years but never really contributed.   Those I identified as a wasted pick are pretty accurate.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I don't think this is far off.  Some players stayed with the team for a couple of years but never really contributed.   Those I identified as a wasted pick are pretty accurate.

The only reason I would say that is categorizing late round picks as "wasted" may not be true. I think if you took a basic round average for a period(say 5 years) and established a "round average" you would have a better idea of who were big hits or big misses.