Samir Suleiman: What he has already done to the Panthers

[kungfoodude]

14 hours ago, Panthera onca said:

CMC wasn’t going to play another down until we showed him the money.

#1 he doesn't strike me as that guy.

#2 how would that appreciably be different than this season? 

I can tell you that if he had not signed that deal and he DID play, he wouldn't be the highest paid RB in football. Well.....he probably would anyway. Marty loves him some RB's. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

The CMC injury based on overplaying him is stupid.  The high ankle sprain and the shoulder injury could have happened to anyone. It has nothing to do with overplaying him.  He's not worn out or overused.   The quad injury has more to do with not being in playing shape than overuse.

If CMC was your typical one dimensional RB than I could understand the huddle freaking out about over paying him.  He's not one dimensional. The man has the ability to be 1000-1000 guy every season.  It's like getting two players in one.

Yeah it sucks he's out and he got a nice bank roll for playing just a couple of games.  But 2021 he'll be back healthy and everyone will be glad he's a Panther again.

I can't stand that 1/2 this group thinks we should have let him walk or trade him for picks.  Than we draft a couple of extra players and you'll want to trade them for a couple of picks and on and on.  CMC is a generational talent and should be kept a Panther until he is ready to retire.

HE'S A CORE PLAYER. 

[kungfoodude]

30 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

The CMC injury based on overplaying him is stupid.  The high ankle sprain and the shoulder injury could have happened to anyone. It has nothing to do with overplaying him.  He's not worn out or overused.   The quad injury has more to do with not being in playing shape than overuse.

Mileage on RB's isn't some fantasy problem. It's something that is general knowledge and largely backed up by the data. There are some obvious outliers to this(Smith, Gore, Peterson, etc) but generally these guys have a definite tread and doing burnouts(400+ carries in a year) has tended to lead to injury afterwards. The quad injury is also something he had last year, if you read that, so it's probably also him just starting to show that overuse. Human bodies do wear down, that's a real thing. Anytime you stress your body more than it can reasonably repair, that tends to have longer term results. Ask any former football player about that.

Quote

If CMC was your typical one dimensional RB than I could understand the huddle freaking out about over paying him.  He's not one dimensional. The man has the ability to be 1000-1000 guy every season.  It's like getting two players in one.

Yeah it sucks he's out and he got a nice bank roll for playing just a couple of games.  But 2021 he'll be back healthy and everyone will be glad he's a Panther again.

I can't stand that 1/2 this group thinks we should have let him walk or trade him for picks.  Than we draft a couple of extra players and you'll want to trade them for a couple of picks and on and on.  CMC is a generational talent and should be kept a Panther until he is ready to retire.

HE'S A CORE PLAYER. 

There weren't many advocating for trading him or letting him walk. There were people(myself included) lobbying heavily against signing him to a mega deal. It has zero to do with him as a player and it has 100% to do with positional value and being intelligent about building a roster. RB's don't win games in the modern NFL(save perhaps a more one dimensional guy like Derrick Henry and even then that is situational). The recent history of playing top dollar to RB's is also almost completely one sided against making that move. It is rare that injuries don't dramatically increase or production doesn't dramatically drop off. 

People get upset because they think it's about CMC. It isn't. It's about the position and making smart decisions for the future of your franchise, something we have struggled with historically. 

Also, he shouldn't be kept a Panther until he is ready to retire. I also hate to see us let our veterans walk(Cam, Olsen, TD, SS, etc) but the NFL is a business. That mentality of letting the team be a comfortable retirement home for past stars is how we continually end up in cap trouble. It absolutely sucks to see but when you can't do it anymore or the obvious bang for the buck is gone, the franchise has to move on. 

Right now the earliest you could reasonably see CMC gone is 2023 based on the contract. Let's hope this year of injuries is an aberration and not a trend. Otherwise, it will be just another in a long line of examples of poor front office decisions that do not align with successful NFL franchise building. I don't think I am going out on a limb by saying we are all pretty sick of seeing those.

[MHS831]

16 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

lol... straw man much?

Newsflash to you and all the other concrete operational cognitive functionalists:  This entire post was speculative and hypothetical, based on circumstantial and fragmented bits on a timeline.  It was creating a scenario of what might have happened behind the scenes to get a better glimpse of the "future" concerning our new hire.  Was that lost on you?   So your response is to Cherry pick a statement from an assumed, speculative, hypothetical post and, without counter fact, challenge its legitimacy?  LOL.  But since you seem lost and confused without a nutsack to hug, I will explain what was being speculated at the end of the 2019 season into the early off season. 

Cam was seeking a deal that demonstrated the Panthers' "commitment" to him, and the market for retaining quality starting QBs was set around $30-35m. (Need some lower-end examples?  Washington is paying Smith $34m. LA is paying Goff $34m, Cousins is making $28m, Garrappolo is making $27m, Tanneyhill is making $23m this year, and his contract will increase next year)  In fact, in 2021, 10 QBs (about 1/3 of the league) will have cap figures above $30m.   It was stated then in the media (NFL Network comes to mind, but it was speculative--because that is all it could have been) that Cam's agent was requesting an extension of about $30m per season--incentive-laden albeit, but that was his reputed opening offer. This post basically makes the point--in the past (using Jake Delhomme as an example) that Marty would have paid Cam.  The numbers are to frame the mistake Marty might have made--but you are very clever to challenge the factual content of something that never materialized.  The reason it did not materialize is the point.

[musicman]

1st; CMC had to get paid to be the face of the franchise and is a multidimensional top 10 player in the NFL. Unless he's injured every year, it was a good deal. The ripple effect is we show players we still can take care of our own as we had to let some go.

2nd; FA signing, like the draft, are a crap shoot. Robbie Anderson, we got the better side, Weatherly we didn't. Douglas was a great pick up, Apple wasn't. That's not always on the GM. Now, the cap and how much money they get might be. 

Without a normal start to the off-season, a new coach needs time to evaluate. I also believe not getting your franchise QB and then building around him doesn't always work. Build a good, solid team with some cap space every year and then drop in the franchise QB. Every year, there is maybe 1 true and new franchise QB identified. So maybe 1/2 the teams have one at any given year, probably less. Building a solid team is easier IMO. 

This was going to be "not a rebuilding year", but an evaluation year. Before the season I didn't care how many games they won as long as they showed fight and promise towards the future and they have. Give us a decent draft and maybe 2 good FA pick ups and we'll be competing for a playoff spot next year. 

If we keep the cap in order, then we should have a competitive year in and year out which is what we want. You gotta be competitive to get to the final dance. 

[ladypanther]

18 hours ago, SCO96 said:

Having so much time off in 2020 will probably benefit Christian during the remaining contract term as long as his body is allowed to fully heal.

Agree..may be a blessing in disguise.

[ncdrifter]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 10:38 AM, Khyber53 said:

When your team is losing and filled with long term vets, the team really needs a hatchet man. And it is a job that gets fans up in arms when sacred cows get slaughtered.

They did the right thing in getting rid of Cam and bringing in Bridgewater. Cam was done and short of moving to a wishbone offense there wasn't a way to make use of him, especially at the prices he was looking for. Bridgewater wasn't brought in to be the franchise QB, he was brought in as a middle ground, decent QB who understood the game. What he did was give you a QB good enough to evaluate the rest of your offensive players without either overcoming their deficiencies or making them look bad by poor QB play. Will Grier obviously couldn't provide the players with decent enough play.

What did Teddy's play show? There was a time this season that we had three of the top 20 receivers in the league (two in the top 10). CMC was CMC (sadly injured, though) but there was enough run game for Davis to look like a good RB1 whereas he had always been a roster bubble guy. The o-line showed they could run block and that they were meh, but not awful, at pass blocking. Teddy was able to show that our TE room was a vast wasteland with no potential whatsoever. You can even say his play showed us that why Slye has a powerful leg, there is a major problem with when a clutch kicker is needed. Good leg, no grit.

Teddy gave us a good evaluation QB this year, and a good teaching QB for next year (if a good candidate falls to us) who can be sent to the bench without a fan revolt at mid-season. Also, in lieu of that third year option, Bridgewater might be willing to accept a decent multi-year back up QB contract.

Cam couldn't have done any of that, definitely not for Teddy's price. The cuts of Olsen (a tough one, but really a needed one), Reid, McCoy, Irvin and others, well, the writing was also on the wall and we needed someone say that 2019 was their career victory lap and we weren't going to pay for another one.

Yeah, we're losing, but it just looks and feels different, better, than it did last year. Now we're looking at a younger, leaner team building a future rather than some dragging, grinding march off to the Elephant Graveyard. It's hard to see heroes go, but it's harder to watch the shells of their old selves crumble to dust.

 

 

[ncdrifter]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 10:38 AM, Khyber53 said:

When your team is losing and filled with long term vets, the team really needs a hatchet man. And it is a job that gets fans up in arms when sacred cows get slaughtered.

They did the right thing in getting rid of Cam and bringing in Bridgewater. Cam was done and short of moving to a wishbone offense there wasn't a way to make use of him, especially at the prices he was looking for. Bridgewater wasn't brought in to be the franchise QB, he was brought in as a middle ground, decent QB who understood the game. What he did was give you a QB good enough to evaluate the rest of your offensive players without either overcoming their deficiencies or making them look bad by poor QB play. Will Grier obviously couldn't provide the players with decent enough play.

What did Teddy's play show? There was a time this season that we had three of the top 20 receivers in the league (two in the top 10). CMC was CMC (sadly injured, though) but there was enough run game for Davis to look like a good RB1 whereas he had always been a roster bubble guy. The o-line showed they could run block and that they were meh, but not awful, at pass blocking. Teddy was able to show that our TE room was a vast wasteland with no potential whatsoever. You can even say his play showed us that why Slye has a powerful leg, there is a major problem with when a clutch kicker is needed. Good leg, no grit.

Teddy gave us a good evaluation QB this year, and a good teaching QB for next year (if a good candidate falls to us) who can be sent to the bench without a fan revolt at mid-season. Also, in lieu of that third year option, Bridgewater might be willing to accept a decent multi-year back up QB contract.

Cam couldn't have done any of that, definitely not for Teddy's price. The cuts of Olsen (a tough one, but really a needed one), Reid, McCoy, Irvin and others, well, the writing was also on the wall and we needed someone say that 2019 was their career victory lap and we weren't going to pay for another one.

Yeah, we're losing, but it just looks and feels different, better, than it did last year. Now we're looking at a younger, leaner team building a future rather than some dragging, grinding march off to the Elephant Graveyard. It's hard to see heroes go, but it's harder to watch the shells of their old selves crumble to dust.

 

 

[ncdrifter]

Just now, ncdrifter said:

 

Well put Kyber. Also, rather literal.

[micnificent28]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

We know Cam isn't doing well because Cam has publicly stated he isn't doing well. He also has 16 TD's and 15 TO's. That is very far from the best of Cam. Talent or no talent around him, he definitely isn't prime Cam anymore.

There is no standard to measure this by especially with that train wreck in New England. Turn overs or whatever you want to measure that by is irrelevant because its clear new England is in a clear reboot and would have been a top 5 picking team if not for thr late addition of cam. Even if he isn't passing efficiently to jacoby myers and often hurt Harry his rushing ability put them in competitive positions.

Not lifting those around him? That roster offense and defense is the worse in new England in almost 2 decades. And yet they are still in prime position for a playoff push. Without cam rushing for 2 touchdowns most weeks that isnt possible.

[Khyber53]

55 minutes ago, ncdrifter said:

Well put Kyber. Also, rather literal.

It's what I do.

[Smithers]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:59 AM, Waldo said:

Didn't we sign Bridgewater and then cut Cam? I understood not signing Cam or even letting him go. Replacing him with Teddy was a tough pill to swallow but the way things went down with Cam was dumb. He was out talking publicly about his contract, a dicey route, and we held him way to long. What a clusterfug. And we gave up a guy for being what he looks like and brought in a guy that was to be better then who he always has been is a bit ironic since it was a lateral move. We still have no good answer at QB next year.  

I'm interested to watch SS with us. How is Moton's contract being handled. Reports or rumors of no contact but we are also going franchise tag? Thats a weird way of proceeding.

 

Teddy is outplaying Cam and it’s not even close.  I love Cam, but it was the right move and he’s being outplayed by just about every QB in the league 

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

There is no standard to measure this by especially with that train wreck in New England. Turn overs or whatever you want to measure that by is irrelevant because its clear new England is in a clear reboot and would have been a top 5 picking team if not for thr late addition of cam. Even if he isn't passing efficiently to jacoby myers and often hurt Harry his rushing ability put them in competitive positions.

Not lifting those around him? That roster offense and defense is the worse in new England in almost 2 decades. And yet they are still in prime position for a playoff push. Without cam rushing for 2 touchdowns most weeks that isnt possible.

I mean, you can move the bar however you want but he played on worse teams here and performed better. From his own mouth he is not playing well. 

It remains to be seen whether prime Cam is a thing that can ever happen again.

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, you can move the bar however you want but he played on worse teams here and performed better. From his own mouth he is not playing well. 

It remains to be seen whether prime Cam is a thing that can ever happen again.

What team here was worse than that one? Even his worse team smitty was there.