Samir Suleiman: What he has already done to the Panthers

[TheSpecialJuan]

I'm going to feel much better when Patrick Stewart takes over for Marty this offseason. 

[Pazhoosier89]

4 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

I'm going to feel much better when Patrick Stewart takes over for Marty this offseason. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

5 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

I'm going to feel much better when Patrick Stewart takes over for Marty this offseason. 

Quote

Then there are executives like Kyle Smith (WAS) and Patrick Stewart (CAR) who may not have final decision currently, but there is an expectation that they can earn that authority sooner rather than later.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/12/10/what-makes-a-great-nfl-general-manager-and-how-should-teams-look-for-one/

[onmyown]

5 hours ago, Waldo said:

Didn't we sign Bridgewater and then cut Cam? I understood not signing Cam or even letting him go. Replacing him with Teddy was a tough pill to swallow but the way things went down with Cam was dumb. He was out talking publicly about his contract, a dicey route, and we held him way to long. What a clusterfug. And we gave up a guy for being what he looks like and brought in a guy that was to be better then who he always has been is a bit ironic since it was a lateral move. We still have no good answer at QB next year.  

I'm interested to watch SS with us. How is Moton's contract being handled. Reports or rumors of no contact but we are also going franchise tag? Thats a weird way of proceeding.

 

As I understand it, the Panthers wanted to get something in return. Cam was in a cast up until then. Hard to get something, anything if he’s not able to work out for other teams. Then COVID crap hit. Prior, I believe there were negotiations, but Cam lost out thinking he was worth more than he was, which was stupid of him. 
 

Maybe Cam wasn’t cut until the FO was sure they’d get TB and he’d play here and positive they weren’t getting any offer for cam - us fans are not privy to these negotiations and timelines, even as much as the over reactors seem to think they know exactly what happened.

And it was stupid of the FO to think they’d get something for him and not just move on, but quite the business mindset we aren’t used to. As said we are not rewarding players for past play or responsible to coddle their feelings. And the feelings a mutual. Because players almost always follow the money, and almost always say ‘it’s business’.

Does it suck from a standpoint of treating someone like a person? Sure. But let’s not act like no one in the world gets fired during Christmas. It’s a business. I am extremely happy this wasn’t another Delomme situation and TB can be cut after next year or benched mid season for a future QB, no problems, as a fan, with how things turned out.

[Panthera onca]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It certainly won't be cheaper if the injury issues continue.

A bunch of mole hill mistakes can quickly turn into a mountain in terms of the cap situation.

CMC wasn’t going to play another down until we showed him the money.

[Waldo]

11 minutes ago, onmyown said:

As I understand it, the Panthers wanted to get something in return. Cam was in a cast up until then. Hard to get something, anything if he’s not able to work out for other teams. Then COVID crap hit. Prior, I believe there were negotiations, but Cam lost out thinking he was worth more than he was, which was stupid of him. 
 

Maybe Cam wasn’t cut until the FO was sure they’d get TB and he’d play here and positive they weren’t getting any offer for cam - us fans are not privy to these negotiations and timelines, even as much as the over reactors seem to think they know exactly what happened.

And it was stupid of the FO to think they’d get something for him and not just move on, but quite the business mindset we aren’t used to. As said we are not rewarding players for past play or responsible to coddle their feelings. And the feelings a mutual. Because players almost always follow the money, and almost always say ‘it’s business’.

Does it suck from a standpoint of treating someone like a person? Sure. But let’s not act like no one in the world gets fired during Christmas. It’s a business. I am extremely happy this wasn’t another Delomme situation and TB can be cut after next year or benched mid season for a future QB, no problems, as a fan, with how things turned out.

Once we signed TB, Cam was worth nothing because every team knew what we were going to do. We also held him when he could have signed like other free agent QBs when we were supposedly bidding on TB with intent to go another direction, then Covid hit and it's all history now. Still, not handled well in execution or visibly to the fans. I understand it's a business. They still did a poor job of the entire situation. As far as this discussion, I only meant that if SS was a part of that process, hopefully it was a learning moment because it wasn't impressive throughout. 

Remember when we kept Butker and it was as obvious to us fans that Hurney was an idiot as it was to every other team what was going to happen? This specific chain of events had the same pathetic feel to the process. Even if it was neccisary or right, it was still handled poorly. That's not defending Cam but concern on future operations if that is the level of skill our front office is going to have.

I hope SS is what he looks like. Then again, he is a cap specialist and not a player specialist as I understand it. That's up to whoever is running this thing to put the right players in position for contracts. Last offseason was a failure from that perspective. Shaq over Bradbury, CMC too early and a slew of wasted signings that killed comp picks. Ohh and still no Moton contract. It's way too early to know the true dynamics all the way around with the amount of change we have had, I'm just wondering and analyzing what little knows that are on the table at this time. 

 

[SCO96]

2 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

The extension given to CMC now is cheaper than it would be in two seasons. Regardless, we would have had to pay him. It's less impact on cap if you do it now, and you can pay your core from the following drafts.  As for weatherly, is a short term deal. This time next year this topic is null. We will have the money and no issues. It's not like they gave weatherly a max contract over many years... This mentality is basically turning a mole hill into a mountain. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you on signing CMC. Christian won't be 25 until June 2021. I don't fully understand all of the intricacies of his deal but it appears to expire at age 29 (2025), the age that most RB's reach, or have all ready hit, or are still at, their peak. If the team felt his performance had diminished in 2024, then they could  cut him in the off-season preceding the last year of his deal (2025) and save $12,200,000 without any cap penalty charges. Trying to lock him up between ages 24 - 28/29 (the prime years of most great backs) seems like a wise move to me. As you pointed out doing so later would have been more expensive, unless the RB market experiences a drastic decline over the next several years.

No one could have predicted the CMC's injury plagued 2020 season. Things like that happen...and not just to RB's. Andrew Luck (a $100 million QB) had to retire prematurely due to injuries. I don't see anyone saying Indy was foolish to sign him to a deal while still on his rookie deal. Having so much time off in 2020 will probably benefit Christian during the remaining contract term as long as his body is allowed to fully heal.

[Peon Awesome]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The guy has 6 career sacks. He's a complete JAG. He's our sixth highest cap hit this season. 

Sure, that's cause they were paying for potential, not past production. Hoping that a guy buried on the bench of a good defensive line might shine when given more snaps. Those are the types of forward thinking gambles I'd rather take compared to overpaying a guy on the wrong side of 30 with a lot more career sacks. That was their gameplan all offseason. Burris, Kerr, hell even Robby Anderson kind of applies. Some hit, some didn't. The point being, it's not a backbreaking gamble if it fails. You can cut him after 1 year with a low dead cap hit. And 6th in cap hit? That's cool. Weird how that happens when your team is a bunch of low priced veterans and rookies. Pretty meaningless compared to the raw numbers but it sure does sound ominous, huh?

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

I agree wholeheartedly with you on signing CMC. Christian won't be 25 until June 2021. I don't fully understand all of the intricacies of his deal but it appears to expire at age 29 (2025), the age that most RB's reach, or have all ready hit, or are still at, their peak. If the team felt his performance had diminished in 2024, then they could  cut him in the off-season preceding the last year of his deal (2025) and save $12,200,000 without any cap penalty charges. Trying to lock him up between ages 24 - 28/29 (the prime years of most great backs) seems like a wise move to me. As you pointed out doing so later would have been more expensive, unless the RB market experiences a drastic decline over the next several years.

No one could have predicted the CMC's injury plagued 2020 season. Things like that happen...and not just to RB's. Andrew Luck (a $100 million QB) had to retire prematurely due to injuries. I don't see anyone saying Indy was foolish to sign him to a deal while still on his rookie deal. Having so much time off in 2020 will probably benefit Christian during the remaining contract term as long as his body is allowed to fully heal.

The career trajectory of RBs after a 300 carry season isn't a good one. CMC "only" had 287 carries last year but add in his 116 catches and he had 403 total touches. He basically had the wear and tear last year of both a workhorse starting RB and a #1 WR. That's crazy.

[SCO96]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The career trajectory of RBs after a 300 carry season isn't a good one. CMC "only" had 287 carries last year but add in his 116 catches and he had 403 total touches. He basically had the wear and tear last year of both a workhorse starting RB and a #1 WR. That's crazy.

You are on point about the damage that occurs from too many "touches" in a season. There are a couple of websites that have data on how RB's break down after a certain amount of carries. The number of carries/touches seems to play more of a role in their declines than the actual chronological age. If you think a 300 carry season is bad, wait until you see what happens to backs who get 400 carries in a season. The article(s) I read didn't even factor in the hits received from receptions (as you did). It was quite informative. I'll post a link when/if  I can find them again.

[tiger7_88]

7 hours ago, MHS831 said:

For those of you who loved Cam and wanted the Panthers to pay $100m or more to keep him here

lol... straw man much?

[LinvilleGorge]

37 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

You are on point about the damage that occurs from too many "touches" in a season. There are a couple of websites that have data on how RB's break down after a certain amount of carries. The number of carries/touches seems to play more of a role in their declines than the actual chronological age. If you think a 300 carry season is bad, wait until you see what happens to backs who get 400 carries in a season. The article(s) I read didn't even factor in the hits received from receptions (as you did). It was quite informative. I'll post a link when/if  I can find them again.

It's a big part of why we ran Cam into the ground. The guy was taking the wear and tear of both a QB and a battering ram power RB every season.

[Snake]

13 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Really? CMC was under contract for two more seasons. There was zero urgency to ink him to a new deal. 

Weatherly has been terrible.

These moves were dumb. Many of us questioned the timing of CMC's contract when it happened. It was just unnecessary to sign a guy to a huge extension when he was under contract for two more seasons at a high wear and tear position. The organization assumed all the risk there for minimal reward. Lo and behold, now CMC is struggling with injuries. I just hope that turns out to be a one year anomaly because if it doesn't the timing of that contract is going to go from mistake to HUGE mistake.

 

It was another Marty Hurney scratch back contact and it's why I think SS controlling anything is baloney. Marty inked CMC and Shaq and no one stopped him. 

[kungfoodude]

18 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Can't agree with the huddle majority as always. It seems to look like hey Cam isn't doing well in new England with a worse wr core than he has ever had here and we are doing worse with a replacement qb that is just middle of the roads is dumb to me. We could be doing exactly what we are doing with teddy with cam. New England largely off cams talents are still fighting for a playoff spot fyi.

We know Cam isn't doing well because Cam has publicly stated he isn't doing well. He also has 16 TD's and 15 TO's. That is very far from the best of Cam. Talent or no talent around him, he definitely isn't prime Cam anymore.