Joe Person: Taylor Moton not likely to return next year, Curtis Samuel might also leave

[WarPanthers89]

Just now, Peon Awesome said:

Ok but do any of these sources actually say that the Panthers aren't interested in resigning Moton? Because no one has seemed to post that. Can someone please link or copy and paste that content? It very well may be somewhere and I just haven't seen it but so far all anyone has posted is what I've already laid out. Which fars fall short of saying the Panthers have no interest in trying to resign Moton.

They have said that they like Moton but it does not look like we are interested in paying what he wants or is expected to get. If you are looking for concrete evidence that it’s not going to happen you are out of luck. All I’m saying is...Zack is about as close to an inside source as this board will ever get. He has been spot on with everything he has said in the past. He told us in a previous thread that it wasn’t likely that Moton will be back. We then heard it discussed on the radio station claiming inside sources were saying the same, then the Joe article talks about the same. No one likes that Moton may not be signed but that’s what appears the be the case. Anything could happen, but I trust RR when they tell us things like that. 
 

On a side note, our franchise is making a mistake if they dont sign him. I said it before and I’ll say it again. Terrible move.

[*FreeFua*]

1 minute ago, MHS831 said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-salary-cap-conundrum-three-major-consequences-of-projected-decrease

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/07/25/several-teams-in-rough-cap-shape-in-2021/

You see, the contracts that are restricting teams are the long term deals just signed.  I have been saying that we have a bunch of contracts we can void/cut and sign our best OL.

All other teams will be cutting these big contracts to make room for a reduced cap--Like the Saints and Falcons.  It is a terrible year to "test the market" because veterans will be flooding it.  Supply and demand.

Supply and demand link: https://www.britannica.com/topic/supply-and-demand

So to adapt to a shrinking payroll, teams will throw big contracts overboard if and when they can. Companies do that when revenues take a hit.  Take a look at Carolina--what big contracts can we trash?

KK Short--Pre-June 1:  $10m; Post June 1:  $15m

Robbie Anderson:  Pre June 1 Cut:  $8m

Shaq Thompson:  Post June 1 Cut:  $11m

Stephen Weatherly:  Pre June 1 Cut:  $6m

So the Panthers could cut KK and Weatherly pre-june 1 and re-sign Moton.  

  The smarter move, however, would be to   Cut Weatherly, clearing another $6m.  Rework Anderson's deal with the understanding that there will be a back-loaded extension, clearing about $8m. Tag Moton, with the intention of working that salary into a long-term contract ($15m)   After June 1, cut Short and Thompson, clearing over $25m, and apply some of that the Moton contract, reworked to be team friendly in 2021.     Let Shaq and Samuel test the market, and sign either or both to team-friendly deals.  But you keep Moton.

There is no way Person would have inside info related to all the capologist will do.   Moton at the expected tag rate of $14.8 is actually lower than he might get per year in a long term deal, so it is foolish not to do it, when all you have to do is cut KK and Weatherly.  Are they waiting for them to be released from IR to avoid injury settlements?  Probably--Are they waiting to see what the cap figure will be?  Probably.

Link about Moton and how stupid it would be to let him go:  https://catcrave.com/2020/12/02/panthers-news-taylor-moton-named-2021-free-agent-team/

You do not keep Short and Weatherly and let Moton walk.  On no planet does that make sense.  And if you cut Thompson and send his ridiculous salary into the abyss that will be a flooded free agency, you save $11m.  Anderson needs an extension so you can cut KK post June 1, saving $5m by cutting him that way.  There are a lot of balls in the air, and person is trying to focus on 1.

 

 

 

I’m well aware of ways to easily come up with the money to pay Moton. Trust me, I think it would be back breaking to let him walk out the door. IMO Moton is a core piece you build around. It is much easier to draft a Samuel replacement than it is a RT. 

I understand their (the Panthers) logic but I don’t agree with it. Also, Shaq isn’t being cut, people need to quit including him in their plans to save money.
 

19 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Yes, but I have a feeling we will be looking OL or MLB in the second.

I think we go back to back tackles in rounds 1 & 2 as it stands right now

[hepcat]

Would it surprise anyone here if Moton and Samuel went and signed with the Giants?

[Captain Morgan]

12 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Would it surprise anyone here if Moton and Samuel went and signed with the Giants?

 

I don't think they have the cap space.   18 mill as it stands, according to Spotrac.  If they pay Moton, they won't be able to do much else.

[Basbear]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:02 PM, Jared Patterson said:

Why not just cut Paradis, KK, Weatherly and either Burris or Boston and resign Moton and Curtis? Or does that make too much sense?

These are rough figures, but this gives the understanding- 

Currently 20-25 in cap space for 2021, lets say 25. Cut KK, Paradis, Weatherly, and whoever. That adds 20

Now sit at = 45

Tag Moton = 15

Rookie Pool= 10

In season cap = 10

45-15-10-10= 10 for Free agent, ERFAs, and panther contracts/extensions..........

 

With the the listed players the panthers cut, they now have around 10 million for around 10 spots that need to fill.......

 

Reminder, cap could be 195(listed here its 175) and these are rough figures overall. You can see theres an issue in tagging Moton, as it kills your team as a whole. Its not "dumb"/Joe Person/RR being wrong/etc its kills your chance to add a better group than keeping Moton. Best way would be to by pass the tag and sign something 5/80ish that hits low in the first two years like 7 million per.....BUT that would be QB type money in the end.

 

Other options are tag and trade, trade and workout a long term deal, but while you are, players you may want to add will be signing elsewhere. Panthers may just feel 15-18 per for a RT is NOT for them at all.....I mean Trent Scott looks ok and he could be signed for waay less. Is Moton 3-5x better than Scott??Or is would you rather have Moton plus JAGS or Samuel, Scott, 3 mid-trier FAs in TE, LB, CB vein?? 

 

I like to keep Moton, but theres clearly other options and I understand not paying him 20million per. 

[Jared Patterson]

28 minutes ago, Basbear said:

These are rough figures, but this gives the understanding- 

Currently 20-25 in cap space for 2021, lets say 25. Cut KK, Paradis, Weatherly, and whoever. That adds 20

Now sit at = 45

Tag Moton = 15

Rookie Pool= 10

In season cap = 10

45-15-10-10= 10 for Free agent, ERFAs, and panther contracts/extensions..........

 

With the the listed players the panthers cut, they now have around 10 million for around 10 spots that need to fill.......

 

Reminder, cap could be 195(listed here its 175) and these are rough figures overall. You can see theres an issue in tagging Moton, as it kills your team as a whole. Its not "dumb"/Joe Person/RR being wrong/etc its kills your chance to add a better group than keeping Moton. Best way would be to by pass the tag and sign something 5/80ish that hits low in the first two years like 7 million per.....BUT that would be QB type money in the end.

 

Other options are tag and trade, trade and workout a long term deal, but while you are, players you may want to add will be signing elsewhere. Panthers may just feel 15-18 per for a RT is NOT for them at all.....I mean Trent Scott looks ok and he could be signed for waay less. Is Moton 3-5x better than Scott??Or is would you rather have Moton plus JAGS or Samuel, Scott, 3 mid-trier FAs in TE, LB, CB vein?? 

 

I like to keep Moton, but theres clearly other options and I understand not paying him 20million per. 

Well how do the Saints easily do whatever they want....

[Basbear]

9 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

Well how do the Saints easily do whatever they want....

Thats a meme to me, if you look back at their history they had 30+ million in dead cap one year and other years where kinda high for the year. Plus they have are about 100 million over next year, kicking the can down is what they where doing and if it goes up 10% per.... the later the better. Since 2007 the cap has about doubled. Paying a player 20mill per when the cap is 110 in 2007 or 20 million when the cap is 200 in 2019....saints bet on the cap going up and they where right. 

The true thing that saved them was that insane 2017 draft class, they got a all-time draft class. Before that they were 7-9 repeaters. Plus since then, theyve kept drafting great no matter the number of picks. Best drafting team in terms of "hits" and value....plus they have one of the best UDFA signing during that span too. fugers make me sick. 

[stbugs]

On 12/5/2020 at 12:48 PM, MHS831 said:

You do not keep Short and Weatherly and let Moton walk.  On no planet does that make sense. 

We kept Short after he missed a whole season for almost the same as tagging Moton in a complete rebuild year. We signed a $63M deal with a bridge QB in a great QB top of the draft class. We reached for a tackle in a stud IOL class with a stud T class coming a year later. We do things that don’t make sense.

Just bracing you for another one. 

[MGH1989]

Huddle is the worst man. Y’all cry over stuff that hasn’t even happened.

[Basbear]

8 hours ago, MGH1989 said:

Huddle is the worst man. Y’all cry over stuff that hasn’t even happened.

Marty Herniay has broken some of us.

[AU-panther]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:12 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Person's roster analysis gave a percentage of likelihood to return for each of next year's free agents.

Simplifying the results, it broke down kind of like this:

PROBABLY BACK

TE Chris Manhertz
LS JJ Jansen
DE Efe Obada
T Trent Scott
K Joey Slye

MAYBE BACK

RB Mike Davis
G John Miller
G Chris Reed
CB Rasul Douglas
WR Keith Kirkwood
WR Brandon Zylstra

PROBABLY NOT

T Taylor Moton
WR Curtis Samuel
FB Alex Armah
CB Corn Elder

MOST LIKELY GONE

T Russell Okung
WR Pharoh Cooper
G Michael Schofield
C Tyler Larsen
LB Tahir Whitehead
LB Adarius Taylor
LB Julian Stanford
DT Kawann Short
DE Stephen Weatherly

This is what drives me crazy.  I would prefer to pay $15m to an elite player that is hard to replace, than $2-5m for 4 average players that you can replace for less than $1m.

 

[Yaboychris28]

We probably won’t pay Jeremy Chinn either when the time comes. Letting Moton walk would be such a Panthers move. So glad we locked in Teddy and Shaq. Lmao