Panther defense most conservative in the league.

[Mr. Scot]

I'm not sold on Snow yet, but I do have to agree that it's hard to evaluate him with the personnel he has now.

[Harbingers]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not sold on Snow yet, but I do have to agree that it's hard to evaluate him with the personnel he has now.

I’m concerned at this point Snow is going to drag Rhule down. Our game regression is just bad, Offenses figured him out since day one second quarter. Those things have nothing to do with personnel.

[panthers55]

8 hours ago, Untouchable said:

It is personnel. The players the other team is trotting out matter too.

Again if it was primarily personnel then why are we better playing single high or cover 0 and applying pressure than sitting back in cover 3 zone and playing prevent ? Blitzing and mixing things up  is a harder scheme to play requiring better skills. Our performance versus Detroit and the first half against Minnesota prove it isn't personnel but scheme because any time we played pressure it worked versus when we rushed 3 we got abused.

[panthers55]

4 hours ago, TikTOK said:

I’ve shut out the Lions because they’re the “Lions”.

The rest of the season they are scoring 23 points a game with one notable exception. Nope that wasn't the primary reason.

[Snake]

14 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Sure but what we are doing has been proven not to work. Why not try something different? Otherwise....why did we fire Ron?

Because the other option results in teams scoring in bunches. He's just limiting their damage. Not a great idea but probably the only one we have with how bad our talent level is. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Snake said:

Because the other option results in teams scoring in bunches. He's just limiting their damage. Not a great idea but probably the only one we have with how bad our talent level is. 

I get the "best effort" argument but then we see a game like versus Minnesota where we appeared to blitz more for the bulk of the game(to a lot of success) and then got cold feet in the final few minutes, it does seem to defy that. Actually, let me put together some game by game blitzing stats and see what it looks like.

[Varking]

10 hours ago, Harbingers said:

I’m concerned at this point Snow is going to drag Rhule down. Our game regression is just bad, Offenses figured him out since day one second quarter. Those things have nothing to do with personnel.

Snow has never dragged Rhule down. Everywhere they have been the defense has been far ahead of the offense. 

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I get the "best effort" argument but then we see a game like versus Minnesota where we appeared to blitz more for the bulk of the game(to a lot of success) and then got cold feet in the final few minutes, it does seem to defy that. Actually, let me put together some game by game blitzing stats and see what it looks like.

Also look at how effective we are between the 20s when we mostly play prevent versus bringing more pressure in the redzone. Yeah I know the space is compressed supposedly making it easier on defense but we seem more aggressive then. And when we use pressure on third down versus sitting back in zone on third and long. At least on the surface we seem to do much better when we bring pressure and disguise our blitzes instead of sitting back in prevent which isn't a personnel issue so much as how and when use our personnel.

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, Varking said:

Snow has never dragged Rhule down. Everywhere they have been the defense has been far ahead of the offense. 

And how many times has that happened in the pros versus in college. Apples and oranges. Most college quarterbacks don't pick apart zone coverage, in the pros they have feasted on Snow's 3-3-5.   The NFL has been quick to adopt many college offensive schemes but not defensive ones. Now you know one of the reasons why.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, panthers55 said:

And how many times has that happened in the pros versus in college. Apples and oranges. Most college quarterbacks don't pick apart zone coverage, in the pros they have feasted on Snow's 3-3-5.   The NFL has been quick to adopt many college offensive schemes but not defensive ones. Now you know one of the reasons why.

I don't have full access to some of the stats that NFL Next Gen Stats puts out but I would like to see some situational statistics for QB's against our specific coverages. 

[BPF]

I get the hate for dropping 8 into coverage, but the personnel is directly tied to this. I know we haven't blitzed a ton, but when we have and it didn't get home we gave up huge plays due to the sheer awfulness of our secondary at times. I am giving the entire coaching staff a 3 year cushion to get good. Honestly, for me it hasn't been as bad as I would have thought this year, considering how bad it has been. It is nice to see a variety of schemes, and using players to their strengths (Chinn, Burns) instead of insisting you have the best scheme out there. Good-great players paired with amazing situational play calling is what wins the SBs. Look at the year Seattle beat down the Broncos, or even more recent our loss. Yes both defenses had some good-great players, but neither would've done what they did without the situational play calling. I'm cautiously optimistic for the next couple of seasons, unless we extend Hurney. That would be the lynchpin to apathy for me and this team. Both coordinators get better through experience and watching tape, remember neither have been in this spot before(NFL coordinator), so you gotta be patient.  

[panthers55]

22 minutes ago, BPF said:

I get the hate for dropping 8 into coverage, but the personnel is directly tied to this. I know we haven't blitzed a ton, but when we have and it didn't get home we gave up huge plays due to the sheer awfulness of our secondary at times. I am giving the entire coaching staff a 3 year cushion to get good. Honestly, for me it hasn't been as bad as I would have thought this year, considering how bad it has been. It is nice to see a variety of schemes, and using players to their strengths (Chinn, Burns) instead of insisting you have the best scheme out there. Good-great players paired with amazing situational play calling is what wins the SBs. Look at the year Seattle beat down the Broncos, or even more recent our loss. Yes both defenses had some good-great players, but neither would've done what they did without the situational play calling. I'm cautiously optimistic for the next couple of seasons, unless we extend Hurney. That would be the lynchpin to apathy for me and this team. Both coordinators get better through experience and watching tape, remember neither have been in this spot before(NFL coordinator), so you gotta be patient.  

You initial assessment is incorrect. When we blitz we don't give up huge plays and in fact do better versus when we sit back in prevent. Look on third down for example. How many times have we sat back in prevent when it is 3rd and long and given up a first down versus bringing pressure. I bet we don't blitz much except in the red zone and that is why we are so bad on third down.

The reality is we don't even play good zone coverage at that. We sit back in the right reads but then we don't match up with anyone on our zone and just stand around when the receiver catches it and then make the tackle. Again not personnel but poor technique. I am.not advocating to get rid of Snow simply to get with the program and use out personnel  more effectively. If they are do big into analytics them use them. To this untrained eye it appears painfully obvious what the problem is.

[Mr. Scot]

51 minutes ago, Varking said:

Snow has never dragged Rhule down. Everywhere they have been the defense has been far ahead of the offense. 

It's valid to point out they've never been together in the pros though.

Not necessarily Snow, but I do have to admit Rhule's comment that he doesn't believe in firing assistants concerns me. Lord knows Rivera stuck with Mike Shula way longer than he should have.

[kungfoodude]