Panthers position group grades Spot on about Teddy

[stbugs]

11 minutes ago, onmyown said:

 

TBs two year contract is pretty irrelevant seeing as the Panthers have the most dead cap in the NFL anyways. But the time it clears he’ll be gone and the defense might actually be good enough to compete.

 

This isn’t true. The salary cap doesn’t work year to year anymore. If we didn’t sign him the extra $42M for this and next year (he’ll be back now) would rollover and we’d have an extra $42M to spend. It would be like rolling into 2021-2023 and paying $0 for Moton for those three years. Throw in Short, Apple, Roberts and Weatherly and we’d have Samuel for $0 for those three years as well. We could easily resign Moore and even extend Anderson and Kerr. Then we could use our regular cap space to make a few splashes.

Every single dollar we’ve wasted this year and next could be rolled over and used. Instead we are talking about if we can keep Moton, Samuel and Moore.

[KSpan]

15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

This isn’t true. The salary cap doesn’t work year to year anymore. If we didn’t sign him the extra $42M for this and next year (he’ll be back now) would rollover and we’d have an extra $42M to spend. It would be like rolling into 2021-2023 and paying $0 for Moton for those three years. Throw in Short, Apple, Roberts and Weatherly and we’d have Samuel for $0 for those three years as well. We could easily resign Moore and even extend Anderson and Kerr. Then we could use our regular cap space to make a few splashes.

Every single dollar we’ve wasted this year and next could be rolled over and used. Instead we are talking about if we can keep Moton, Samuel and Moore.

They still have to spend 89% of the cap for the 4-year period ending next season. That said yes, I'd much rather be seeing that money going to other players.

[stbugs]

3 minutes ago, KSpan said:

They still have to spend 89% of the cap for the 4-year period ending next season. That said yes, I'd much rather be seeing that money going to other players.

We’ve spent close to 100% the past three years. Could carry over @ $80M and still meet the 89% requirement. Also, with Moton and others to extend, front load the deals us also easy and don’t use post 6/1.

Anyway, easy to roll over every penny we wasted.

[onmyown]

36 minutes ago, stbugs said:

This isn’t true. The salary cap doesn’t work year to year anymore. If we didn’t sign him the extra $42M for this and next year (he’ll be back now) would rollover and we’d have an extra $42M to spend. It would be like rolling into 2021-2023 and paying $0 for Moton for those three years. Throw in Short, Apple, Roberts and Weatherly and we’d have Samuel for $0 for those three years as well. We could easily resign Moore and even extend Anderson and Kerr. Then we could use our regular cap space to make a few splashes.

Every single dollar we’ve wasted this year and next could be rolled over and used. Instead we are talking about if we can keep Moton, Samuel and Moore.

 

I mean I’ll put it on the list of relevant topics on the subject of Panthers wasted cap and missed chance for rollover money, supported by hindsight.

Point #61

 

[jerrya]

3 hours ago, t96 said:

Pretty spot on for the most part. Only comments are:

- Probably wouldn't give a D to TEs, they've been okay blocking and just aren't used or targeted much in the passing game so a D seems a bit unfair. Maybe an I for incomplete...

- B is quite generous for OL... They've been better than expected considering the injuries but still a total mess most of the time, with only 1 consistently great player (Moton). 

TE's have not been targeted much so agree with the I.  Don't know if it's because:

1.  They are help back to help OL with blocking.

2  Play calling and offensive schemes don't put a priority on TE's.

3.  Talent is not there even though it seems like running a quick slant over the middle or quick out pattern should be possible.

[stbugs]

13 hours ago, onmyown said:

 

I mean I’ll put it on the list of relevant topics on the subject of Panthers wasted cap and missed chance for rollover money, supported by hindsight.

Point #61

 

No hindsight on this one. I laid out my plan but Marty didn’t follow it! I tend to dive into the cap stuff but this was obvious rebuilding and looking ahead. We had young guys coming up for extensions and we weren’t going to compete this year and yet we spent over $100M in cap space to try and compete and now we’ll likely have trouble maintaining our young guys.

People want to know why the Saints afford to resign their guys year after year. Here it is. They extend their core good players and spend money on those guys. They don’t spend $13M on players coming off of big injuries. We did it with two guys this year. They don’t sign stop gap players like Teddy, they get 3rd round picks for them while cheap. How many core guys have they lost to FA? 4 of their top 5 cap hits this year were drafted and the other was Brees. 4 of our top 5 cap hits this year are FAs signed in the past two years and CMC. 1 of our top 4 cap hits is signed past 2021 and that’s Teddy who likely won’t be with us after 2021 unless we fail to get a good young QB.

[Snake]

Just points to needing a real franchise QB. Upgrading the Oline and QB position is important in the off season. PJ needs his shot as well as Grier. 

[MasterAwesome]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

No hindsight on this one. I laid out my plan but Marty didn’t follow it! I tend to dive into the cap stuff but this was obvious rebuilding and looking ahead. We had young guys coming up for extensions and we weren’t going to compete this year and yet we spent over $100M in cap space to try and compete and now we’ll likely have trouble maintaining our young guys.

People want to know why the Saints afford to resign their guys year after year. Here it is. They extend their core good players and spend money on those guys. They don’t spend $13M on players coming off of big injuries. We did it with two guys this year. They don’t sign stop gap players like Teddy, they get 3rd round picks for them while cheap. How many core guys have they lost to FA? 4 of their top 5 cap hits this year were drafted and the other was Brees. 4 of our top 5 cap hits this year are FAs signed in the past two years and CMC. 1 of our top 4 cap hits is signed past 2021 and that’s Teddy who likely won’t be with us after 2021 unless we fail to get a good young QB.

You do know the Saints like...actually...traded their own 3rd round pick to the Jets for Teddy initially, right?

By the way I don't know what kind of Olympic level mental gymnastics you have to perform to be able to rationalize crediting Rhule with the draft because of his loose connection to 1 or 2 players (like trying to recruit YGM out of high school), but blaming Hurney for signing Teddy who has a VERY strong connection to Joe Brady.  Your logic is incredibly inconsistent.

[Vagrant]

it's tough. the only part that i would disagree about would be that we've seen enough. i don't think you can fairly say that with the amount of holes we have offensively. CMC not being around is such a huge loss and the lack of a reliable pass catching TE for red zone trips has hurt us ever since Greg started to slow down. I would certainly like to see Teddy be more aggressive with his downfield throws, but I think that's a case of a player knowing his limitations. Teddy throws a very catchable ball and that doesn't only favor the WR, it favors the secondary. His misses hang up in the air for a long time. 

I want to see Teddy with a full compliment of options and playing like his job depends upon him finishing drives. If that means with a QB behind him that's pushing him, so be it. But I don't think with what he has shown this year that we can in good conscience dump him off for nothing. 

[Kentucky Panther]

Should be obvious to anyone at this point he’s not the guy. Obvious! He has a great supporting cast and no worse than an average offensive line. He doesn’t need anymore help. We shouldn’t have to give him the perfect team for him to put up better numbers. 
 

I’m getting more confident by the week that our front office will look to upgrade the position after the season. 

[raleigh-panther]

42 minutes ago, Vagrant said:

it's tough. the only part that i would disagree about would be that we've seen enough. ..... 

I want to see Teddy with a full compliment of options and playing like his job depends upon him finishing drives. If that means with a QB behind him that's pushing him, so be it. But I don't think with what he has shown this year that we can in good conscience dump him off for nothing. 

The truth about the nfl is QBs it seems to me,  seldom,  if ever, have a full compliment of weapons

They have to adapt and win  with what they have.

If Teddy requires all that, plus a stellar defense, why is he being paid $63 million at contract end 

I have seen enough.  He is who I thought he was and I’m sorry it about as this team has a lot of holes and paying him money to be something he will never be, means we will lose either Moton or Samuel or both.   

[MHS831]

On 12/2/2020 at 12:59 PM, raleigh-panther said:

To date, Panthers position grades

on Bridgewater 

Quarterbacks: C-

Teddy Bridgewater has completed a high % of his passes and has racked up a lot of yards. However, he hasn't been aggressive enough to really take advantage of the weapons he has and has also committed too many turnovers. His 14/8 touchdown/interception ratio is what one would expect from a respectable backup, not a starter. At this point, we know what Teddy is. We'd like to see more of what P.J. Walker and Will Grier can do during the last month of the season.

 

The grades in the other position group are pretty obvious and fair, it seems to me 

 

I thought the OL grade was a laugher--a B?  I give the OL a D+

Secondly, the LB group got a B?  Unless they are including Chinn, Whitehead is an F and Thompson is a C--that does not round up to a B.   D+ without Chinn, C+ with Chinn.