Beane versus Hurney

[Carl Spackler]

11 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

I won't say who he is, but there is a certain radio host I enjoy listening to on a regular basis. I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of the time he's dead on with his opinions. He feels if you have certain things in place your almost guaranteed to have consistent success in the NFL

1) Good Owner (non meddlesome)

2) Good/Great HC  

3) Good/Great QB

4) Good/competent GM

Great, we’re 0-4

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That was Jerry Richardson. He wanted to win, but had no clue how to do it, and some of his core values conflicted with what he needed to do.

If that's also Tepper, then we've gained nothing.

I'm starting to sense it's that way with Tepper as well, so we got that going for us....

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Beane is good, but I doubt Buffalo ever wins a SB in this era. AFC is way too stacked and its only gonna get tougher with Lawrence/Fields joining it next year.

Meanwhile, NFC looks to be wide open. Brady, Brees, Rodgers retiring in the next few years. So, if you want some rings Beane come home.

[Panther Believer]

Pat Stewert will be our GM of the future.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Panther Believer said:

Pat Stewert will be our GM of the future.

I'd prefer Jeff Ireland or Terry Fontenot, but it's definitely possible.

[Panther Believer]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I'd prefer Jeff Ireland or Terry Fontenot, but it's definitely possible.

Don't really know their background off the top of my head. Just have seen that Pat and Rhule have a history and with him scooping Rasul and from what I've seen Eagles fans say about him, I already like him lol.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Panther Believer said:

Don't really know their background off the top of my head. Just have seen that Pat and Rhule have a history and with him scooping Rasul and from what I've seen Eagles fans say about him, I already like him lol.

Ireland and Fontenot are the Assistant GMs of the Saints, with Ireland being over college scouting and Fontenot in charge of pro personnel.

Ireland has run the Saints drafts for the last few years and done a phenomenal job. He'd probably be my first choice over Fontenot, but there's thoughts that the Saints might look at him as heir apparent to Mickey Loomis.

I'm not necessarily against Pat Stewart, but these guys have stronger resumés.

(and there'd be fewer Star Trek jokes)

[MasterAwesome]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

For the record, that trade was Beane's idea.

The context of my post was a critique of Beane’s moves as GM, so thanks for the support I guess? Not exactly sure what you are getting at.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

The context of my post was a critique of Beane’s moves as GM, so thanks for the support I guess? Not exactly sure what you are getting at.

Adding to it.

Beane didn't just accept a bad trade offer. It was his idea.

I like what he's done overall, but that one was a stinker.

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, ADR said:

So we kept Hurney. In the meantime look what Beane has done in Buffalo. Why in the hell did Tepper keep Hurney 

So now we have the Butker/Gano whine transferring to GMs.

Let's move along some folks.

[SCO96]

46 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Great, we’re 0-4

That's a bit harsh don't ya think? Rhule has fielded a competitive team in a fairly short period of time. I think we may have 1 piece of the puzzle in terms of HC. Unfortunately I think we may be 0-3 in the other departments.

[Peon Awesome]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Remember when he traded a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin?  They also traded a hell of a lot for Stefon Diggs, who is a great receiver no doubt...but they gave up a 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th and took on a huge contract.  That's also a move I think would be largely criticized in here if we had done it.

Not to mention Minnesota drafted Justin Jefferson with the 1st round pick they got from Buffalo. As good as Diggs has been, Buffalo is paying about $9 million per season more for Diggs and their stats are remarkably close. Plus they lost those day 3 picks like you mentioned. Hard to imagine people looking back and seeing this as a win for Buffalo.

Edited to add: I'll admit it's not completely fair to criticize the trade with the hindsight of Jefferson and his production, BUT, the 2020 draft was considered to be one of the best WR classes of all time. Overpaying for a veteran receiver with that draft capital, even a good one, is much less defensible. 

[MasterAwesome]

56 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

By all accounts, Both the Vikings and the Bills each won the trade. Bills needed a bonafide #1 and had the cap space to make it happen, Diggs was unhappy in Minny, and the Vikings used the pick they got to draft Justin Jefferson who is playing far better than they could have hoped at a fraction of the cost. 

Could they have drafted Jefferson? Sure, but the draft is a gamble and there was no guarantee that he would have been there when they picked so they made the move to get a known commodity in Diggs. 

All in all, Beane has been great for them, far better than Hurney has been for us. He has put together a roster with depth and players that contribute (positively) to the team throughout. Something Hurney really sucks at doing now. 

What are you going to do though?

BTW, you forgot to mention Tre'Davious White, one of the best Corners in the game right now (Drafted by Beane).

Tre’Davious White was not drafted by Beane. Beane was hired as GM right after the 2017 draft. Doug Whaley ran the draft for the Bills and actually traded down in the 1st, still grabbing White and acquiring an extra 1st and 3rd round pick in the following draft which set Beane up beautifully in his first draft.  He largely squandered that extra 1st on Tremaine Edmunds in the middle of the 1st round, who has been a disappointment. Again, exactly the type of move Hurney would get blasted for in here (“Hurney and his first round linebackers!!”). Hell, he traded UP in the first to get a linebacker...if that doesn’t scream “Hurney” then I don’t know what does.

I’m willing to consider the Diggs trade a wash at best, if I’m being charitable...if you do factor in that they ultimately could have gotten an incredibly promising rookie receiver like Jefferson at a fraction of the cost (plus a 4th, 5th, and 6th round pick), then it was certainly a terrible trade in hindsight. Isn’t that how we tend to evaluate moves on the Huddle? Using hindsight? 99% of the Huddle was excited and supportive of the Paradis signing, for example, until he sh&$ the bed in his first year, then we deemed it a disaster and still trash Hurney for it.

I think Beane, like most every GM, makes his share of good moves and head scratchers. I’d say he’s been more bad than good in evaluating his body of work so far...I think people are lazy and way overhype Beane based solely on their record, and assume he must be building one hell of a roster over there. I don’t think people are actually evaluating his individual moves as GM to see which ones panned out or not. I think McDermott is really the guy we missed out on keeping over Rivera...Beane is whatever so far.

[SmokinwithWilly]

7 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

99% of the Huddle was excited and supportive of the Paradis signing, for example, until he sh&$ the bed in his first year, then we deemed it a disaster and still trash Hurney for it.

I was excited about the possibility, but was extremely wary of adding a FA center coming off a leg injury. It was going to be boom or bust. And Elway not wanting to keep a center as good as Paradis (theoretically)? We all know the value of a top end center after being spoiled with Kalil and we all saw how bad it was to have an injured center holding the middle. That was a screaming red flag.

I (and a lot of other people) wanted McCoy and another G. We could have played him at guard instead of VR and moved him to center if Paradis sucked. We had almost zero real depth. Hurney actually planned to start a rookie LT, a JAG guard, just injured center, underperforming guard and just injured DW. That was a horrible plan and he deserves criticism for it. It was a win now move that set our oline back 3 years.