Are we really getting anything out of Derrick Brown?!?!?!

[AU-panther]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:34 PM, Toomers said:

    You dismissed anything brought up. You told people their “eye test” wasn’t accurate and needed to be balanced with stats. Then said the stats available weren’t enough. I’m as far from a “stats” person as anyone, but it seems you weren’t going to give credit no matter what was provided. And based it on the basis of hypothetical situations. Most people that can read will agree with that. 
 

    You stated before the draft he wasn’t worth the pick and are using everything you can(real or imagined)  to dispute any perceived success. Is that a signal that you think he IS worth it? Don’t see how? Then chastise everyone for a “rookie”.bias when it’s more that you just don’t want to be wrong.  When someone pays you to breakdown film and coach players......then I’ll listen. Not from people who have to google their opinions

Yes, a lot of the eye test around here are awful.

Yes, the original stats (TFL) listed in this thread are very specific and don't give you the entire picture.

Sorry about the hypothetical scenario, I was trying to help people understand.  didn't mean to confuse anyone.

"Worth it" is a pretty broad term.  I was worried he might not not turn into a dominating pass rusher, in the regard I wasn't sure if he was going to be "worth it" compared to some of the other choices.  Now that he is on the team, those other choices aren't really an option so I have to judge him based just on just his preperformance.  Any draft pick that turns into a quality starter is "worth it" when you look back and see how many draft picks don't work out.  "Worth it" is relative to the context you are using it, sorry if I confused people again.

I'll admit that my first choice was to move down and draft Henderson, Kinlaw, or one of the OTs, saying put I'm on record saying I would have drafted Simmons, with Brown probably being my second choice.   I said over and over that I thought he might be the safest pick in the draft. 

You claim I won't admit I'm wrong about him being good, but in reality I actually expected him to be better so far.  I thought, outside of Young, he was the safest pick in the draft.  If anything I was wrong about him being good, I expected him to be more dominating, at least in the run game than he has so far.

Also nobody is asking you to listen, you can choose to read the post you want to.

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

On 11/20/2020 at 9:55 PM, AU-panther said:

My point is he isn’t playing that great relative to the rest of the league.  He is playing good relative to the other rookies.  

 

That's the measuring stick for a rookie. If you're expecting a rookie to be on par with future HOFers in the prime of their careers then you're pretty much always going to be disappointed, even if your rookie turns out to be a future HOFer himself.

[Mage]

Plus, he's an interior DL.  It takes time for those guys to get going.  Look at Cameron Heyward for the Steelers, for example.  Dude didn't really become the All-Pro caliber DL that he is until his 4th or 5th season.  

Patience is virtue.  I've seen enough of Brown this year to know he's going to be a gamer down the road.  Eventually he'll get quicker with his moves at the point of attack and he'll probably get even stronger.  You have to be special as a interior lineman to shine as a rookie (Donald and Suh, for example).  Brown isn't that kind of guy.  But he's still very good.  And he will be great one day.  It just takes time.

[AU-panther]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's the measuring stick for a rookie. If you're expecting a rookie to be on par with future HOFers in the prime of their careers then you're pretty much always going to be disappointed, even if your rookie turns out to be a future HOFer himself.

Then that is what people should say, but people around here are talking like he is playing great overall which is a false statement.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Then that is what people should say, but people around here are talking like he is playing great overall which is a false statement.

All you have to do is understand context.

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

All you have to do is understand context.

But that isn’t the context they say 

[micnificent28]

This is bs. Where have these 17 pressures come from? Has anyone seen him jusr collapsing the pocket in the middle of the field? I haven't seen him particularly close to any sacks infact, on most passing downs it seems he isn't even in the game and they bring obada in to rush from his postion.. what constitutes a pressure? Taking a step past the line of scrimmage?

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

5 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

This is bs. Where have these 17 pressures come from? Has anyone seen him jusr collapsing the pocket in the middle of the field? I haven't seen him particularly close to any sacks infact, on most passing downs it seems he isn't even in the game and they bring obada in to rush from his postion.. what constitutes a pressure? Taking a step past the line of scrimmage?

You are a trip bro... he's a Panther they don't do re drafts root for him.

[micnificent28]

I gotta speak on this

[micnificent28]

25 minutes ago, TrevorLaurenceTime22 said:

You are a trip bro... he's a Panther they don't do re drafts root for him.

No your a trip. Being a fan doesn't mean drink the kool-aid of every single thing they do and not criticizing what I see as a misstep. You act like I only make threads to bash brown when I have done the opposite, I make threads supporting samuel who just scored* I argue that he could potentially be better than Moore. 

I defended Brian burns from day 1, I just dont like subpar athletes in my analysis. For the 100th time I want brown to do all the things u think he does, I would cheer him on, I just think we overpaid in terms of draft capital for what is essentially a 2 down player. Hes great for those 2 down and if the nfl was a running game like the old days.

Guess what kind of league it is?

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

5 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

No your a trip. Being a fan doesn't mean drink the kool-aid of every single thing they do and not criticizing what I see as a misstep. You act like I only make threads to bash brown when I have done the opposite, I make threads supporting samuel who just scored* I argue that he could potentially be better than Moore. 

I defended Brian burns from day 1, I just dont like subpar athletes in my analysis. For the 100th time I want brown to do all the things u think he does, I would cheer him on, I just think we overpaid in terms of draft capital for what is essentially a 2 down player. Hes great for those 2 down and if the nfl was a running game like the old days.

Guess what kind of league it is?

Then fire hurney... you referenced his 40 several times earlier in the thread.... It's pretty much in line with average for 330 pound DTs.   Your *draft analysis* makes you sound like Al Davis... 

[micnificent28]

9 minutes ago, TrevorLaurenceTime22 said:

Then fire hurney... you referenced his 40 several times earlier in the thread.... It's pretty much in line with average for 330 pound DTs.   Your *draft analysis* makes you sound like Al Davis... 

40, measures more than speed  burst and explosion.not saying a defensive tackle should run a 4.6 but if your drafting a defensive tackle top 7 he damn sure better effect the passing.  You dont draft a 2 down player top 7. Even on that sack forced inside by burns just now... guess who wasn't in and who was in his place got the sack... Obada.. im just being honest with you guys and you act like if I dont jusr say ever panther is great im not a fan.. no I look at a lot of things from a draft/ athlete perspective. 

Brown will play im the league a long time because he is very good at what he does. Stoping the run.i couldn't ask for more in a rookie from him in that aspect. But is that all that we drafted him for? I personally think hes a lot like star but star was probably a better pass rusher. But most definitely fire hurney thats a given.

[rmoneyg35]

The problem with defensive linemen is that they can take a few years to develop. He’s also at a position (nose tackle) that doesn’t get a lot of sacks so it’s hard to see what he’s doing.

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

3 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

40, measures more than speed  burst and explosion.not saying a defensive tackle should run a 4.6 but if your drafting a defensive tackle top 7 he damn sure better effect the passing.  You dont draft a 2 down player top 7. Even on that sack forced inside by burns just now... guess who wasn't in and who was in his place got the sack... Obada.. im just being honest with you guys and you act like if I dont jusr say ever panther is great im not a fan.. no I look at a lot of things from a draft/ athlete perspective. 

Brown will play im the league a long time because he is very good at what he does. Stoping the run.i couldn't ask for more in a rookie from him in that aspect. But is that all that we drafted him for? I personally think hes a lot like star but star was probably a better pass rusher.

For a dlineman his 3 cone is more concerning, That said he's a rookie... and he's far from a bust so far it's a bit premature is all I'm saying.