Outside of a QB who do you have and why?

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We didn't build around them or we couldn't because we had all our resources tied up in them?

That's kind of a "six of one / half dozen of the other" thing.

Bottom line is that we've been lousy at roster building (under Marty, anyway).

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's kind of a "six of one / half dozen of the other" thing.

Bottom line is that we've been lousy at roster building (under Marty, anyway).

Just think about Double Trouble. We had two 1st round picks and a huge chunk of salary cap tied up in two RBs. It's hard to criticize us for failing to build around that when having them both on the roster greatly hampered our ability to add talent elsewhere, both vis the draft and via FA. The error was spending two 1st round picks on RBs then signing both to elite 2nd contracts.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just think about Double Trouble. We had two 1st round picks and a huge chunk of salary cap tied up in two RBs. It's hard to criticize us for failing to build around that when having them both on the roster greatly hampered our ability to add talent elsewhere, both vis the draft and via FA. The error was spending two 1st round picks on RBs then signing both to elite 2nd contracts.

I sometimes wonder, between Marty Hurney and John Fox, who was more to blame for all that?

I know ultimately it's both of them, and Hurney didn't get any better with Ron Rivera as his partner, so...

[Davidson Deac II]

3 hours ago, thefuzz said:

I'm sorry, but 3M per season for a true no. 1 corner vs. an average off ball LB in a 4/3....that's not "a lot more expensive".

Its more important than you thing imo.  And from what I read, Shaq is about 20th or so in salary for a outside linebacker.  Seems about right.

But the key is what happens if we cut him.  We can cut Shaq with a relatively small cap/dead money hit in the future.  Bradberry's dead money would be a lot higher, even if it was only for 3 years.  

[thefuzz]

14 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Its more important than you thing imo.  And from what I read, Shaq is about 20th or so in salary for a outside linebacker.  Seems about right.

But the key is what happens if we cut him.  We can cut Shaq with a relatively small cap/dead money hit in the future.  Bradberry's dead money would be a lot higher, even if it was only for 3 years.  

You don't sign players to top end money if you are worried about having to cut them quickly.

Also, you need to break down 4/3 OLB's vs 3/4 OLB's if you are going to really look at it.

Listen, for 3M more per season I'll take a shut down no. 1 CB over an OLB every time, and twice on Sundays.  Said so before James' deal was done, when it was done, and after we stupidly signed Shaq.  James is the better player, at the more important position.

Just reeks of Marty Hurney.

[OldhamA]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We didn't build around them or we couldn't because we had all our resources tied up in them?

We have historically focused on the wrong position groups. That's my point. It's not a comment on the individual players.

My approach is that the Draft is used to acquire talent. 

Take the best player available at your pick (within reason). Use FA to supplement this and fill any glaring holes on the roster.

Our problem hasn't been taking those great players at less than premium positions in the first round. It's been finding good players in the later rounds.

Our Draft history is the stuff of nightmares if you actually take the time to go back and look at who we picked.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

My approach is that the Draft is used to acquire talent. 

Take the best player available at your pick (within reason). Use FA to supplement this and fill any glaring holes on the roster.

Our problem hasn't been taking those great players at less than premium positions in the first round. It's been finding good players in the later rounds.

Our Draft history is the stuff of nightmares if you actually take the time to go back and look at who we picked.

You can find good non-pass rushing LBs and RBs all over the league that weren't drafted in the 1st. We've done a very poor job of understanding positional value and allocating our resources intelligently and that's a big reason why we're a franchise with an overall losing record.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Dedicating high draft picks to RBs and then resigning those players to historically costly contracts seems like Marty Hurney's favorite thing to do.

RB should be viewed as one of the easiest positions to address later in the draft, without dedicating massive amounts of the teams cap long term.

This has been a huge misallocation of the Panthers resources for the last two decades.

[ImaginaryKev]

12 hours ago, Varking said:

Draft Kyle Pitts. See what our defense looks like when they can pin their ears back and get after a QB when we have a pretty big lead? Pitts in the first solves red zone issues and then go with two oline and then all defense again. 

It'd be ballsy if we did. Like, he's a legit top five player in the draft. But the positional value is gonna be strange, I'm interested to see exactly how high he gets drafted. He's far and away better than TJ Hockenson and think the hype rivals Vernon Davis (that guy went 6, maybe?).

I definitely don't expect us to draft him but if we do I'm absolutely gonna be on here defending it

 

[ImaginaryKev]

I mean obviously you want a corner or a left tackle but Pitts is so good

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:05 PM, theinstrumental said:

There's no gap because we kept throwing first rounders at the problem. But all of their careers were either cut short (Morgan, Beason, Luke), or repeatedly interrupted (Davis) by serious injuries. 

The choice is not between using your most valuable resource or the zero resources that we spent on Whitehead, and the average second-day pick is not going to be as bad a Whitehead. Whitehead was a free agent who signed a one-year, $1 million dollar contract. For a starter, that's the lowest you can possibly go. There are about a million options in between, from reasonably-priced free agents to second and third round picks to trading mid-to-late round picks for established vets on slightly pricier contracts. 

That's usually how it works.  When you lose a great asset you draft another one.  I can't recall our needs each time we drafted them but they were probably BPA.  

They were all great linebackers and Luke could be considered GOAT. 

Do you think our defense would have been as good as it was without Luke?  Say we picked someone else instead of Luke and drafted a 2nd or 3rd rounder.  Do you think they would have been able to lead that defense to a 15-1 season in 2015? Probably not.

I got your point that you can get a good MLB on day 2 serviceable but not great.

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

A "shutdown" corner doesn't exist in today's NFL... 

[ImaginaryKev]

I dont know about y'all but Trey Lance the only QB I would want us to stay away from and its bc of Carson Wentz looking like poo, and the fact that he's barely played. I think that's an issue

[DaveThePanther2008]

13 hours ago, Varking said:

Draft Kyle Pitts. See what our defense looks like when they can pin their ears back and get after a QB when we have a pretty big lead? Pitts in the first solves red zone issues and then go with two oline and then all defense again. 

Not arguing the Pitts pick but is he a solution in this offense?  Brady doesn't seem to utilize a TE much.  I didn't see LSU last year so someone needs to tell me he utilized the TE.  Is it because none of our TE are good enough or Brady doesn't use them or both. Pitts could be the greatest TE ever and it won't matter if we don't utilize him.