Outside of a QB who do you have and why?

[thefuzz]

18 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I agree, but in fairness, Bradberry would have been a lot more expensive.  Shaq is being paid middle of the pack for his position, Bradberry would have been top five in his position.  And I am not sure he wanted to stay here.  

This isn't accurate.

[Jeremy Igo]

The NFL combine has never been more important than it will be in 2021.

[Davidson Deac II]

2 hours ago, thefuzz said:

This isn't accurate.

Shaq's guaranteed salary for four years is 11 million and some change.  Bradberry's is over 20 million for only three years.  Shaq can be cut in a couple of years with no guaranteed money, although we would have some dead money.  For the three years Bradberry signed, his cap hit is 3 million higher per year on average than Shaq's.  

https://overthecap.com/player/shaq-thompson/3873/

https://overthecap.com/player/james-bradberry/4775/

[Davidson Deac II]

50 minutes ago, bull123 said:

So Bradbury would rather be in that dumpster up in NY?

it was all about the cash...

He had no reason to believe that the Giants would be worse than us.  And probably thought they would be better.  And he probably likes Gettleman.    

[AU-panther]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:40 AM, LinvilleGorge said:

Again, looking too small. Investments aren't made in a vacuum. There's opportunity cost there as well. Those resources spent on LBs (and RBs) could have been spent on players with higher positional value. One of the reasons why we've always sucked at OL and DB is because of those resources tied up at LB and RB. We've been focusing on the wrong spots and our overall record reflects that.

Great points.

Thinking out loud here, is some of it because of misguided positional value or job preservation?

You draft a RB in the first round and and give him enough carries he gets enough yards and it looks like a good pick.  You draft a LB and put him on the field he gets a lot of tackles and it looks like a good pick.  Rush yards and tackles are mostly a product of opportunity.  You give most RBs 25 carries and they will have around 100 yards.  Line up a guy at MLB and by the end of the season he will have a lot of tackles.

Other positions, such as CB or OL might appear to struggle more initially. Might look like the wrong pick and look worse on the front office.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I definitely agree with you that this organization tends to value certain positions more than others.

 

[Icege]

OL (LT, LG, C) - Cannot repeat this factoid enough: only Greg Little, Matt Paradis, and Dennis Daley are under contract for next season. Re-signing Taylor Moton is priority #1. Might be wise to sign Trent Scott's RFA tender as well. Joe Person recently said on The Atlantic Q&A that the team is likely looking to bring John Miller back at RG, which would leave LG and LT to be addressed. There are a lot of veteran options at LG (UFAs and potential cap casualties) in the offseason for the team to target, which would allow them to search for an LT (and a C to replace Matt Paradis with to free up cap space). Doesn't matter who we have back there nor what type of weapons they have if the defense is only forcing opponents to punt twice a game and the offense is getting murdered. I'm a huge fan of Tyler Linderbaum out of Iowa as well as Creed Humphrey out of Oklahoma. Trey Hill out of Georgia looks good as well. The team could also opt to go G in the draft given the continual rentals, making players like Wyatt Davis, Trey Smith, and Deonte Brown intriguing targets.

MLB - Tahir Whitehead (thankfully) isn't coming back next season and Shaq can't be continually to be (thanklessly) asked to do the job of two players. It'll be interesting to see Chris Orr and Jordan Mack compete, but starting in the NFL? That I'm not sure of yet. Micah Parsons is the dream prospect here, but Chazz Surratt out of UNC could be a nice consolation prize.

DB (CB, FS) - Rasul Douglas is on a 1yr deal, I don't see this staff keeping Action Jackson passed his rookie contract (though I am impressed with how he's trying to tough out his toe injury this season. That poo probably suuuuuuuuuuucks). I like Troy Pride Jr's grit and understand that he's a rookie, but I'm not seeing a lot of things that pop out to me that say he's going to be a solid starting NFL CB (right now, I'm seeing a less frustrating but equally untrustworthy version of Daryl Worley). I'd like to see what STO has, and also according to Person the staff seem impressed with how Corn Elder has stepped up. On the safety front, based on his contract alone we are going to see Tre Boston starting next season. I really, really hope that the team can find something at FS for once. Burris' contract expires next season as well, so maybe we see Sam Franklin develop to allow us the option of choosing between him/Chinn (OR having them both on the field and letting Phil Snow to what he wants).

TE - Ian Thomas, Chris Manhertz, and Colin Thompson are not the answer. While Joe Brady's offense seems to rely on the TE more as a downfield blocker and pull coverage their way, having a big body target for the redzone might help with some of the team's frustrations inside the 20.

 

[J.B.]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:52 AM, Khyber53 said:

Going to be really hard to evaluate talent based on the weird season (or lack of season for some) that 2020 has given us. Something tells me the number of busts in the first round of the draft will be way out of proportion this time around.

I'm not sure that I wouldn't prefer going to one of the less flashy positions with a first round pick. OL, MLB, S, TE. (And TE only if there is something impressive coming out of basketball (if there's a season there)).

 

I think it’s going to be hard to evaluate QB talent. But maybe not so much positions we need like OL, LB and CB

I hope that we are not in the QB game this year because the top 2-3 will not be attainable. Would like to see Grier/Walker get opportunities the remainder of 2020 to see if there might be something there. 
we can ride teddy for another few years if needed while we build

[shaqattaq]

On 11/18/2020 at 2:32 PM, Growl said:

There's no excuse not to come out of this class with a QB. 

I agree. I just hope we don't over-reach, but I guess that depends on where we end up in the draft. The consensus is that 4 are worthy of going in the top 1/2 of round. If they're gone when we draft, fill another need (Lord knows we have plenty) and make a plan to get our conciliation prize at QB. 

[theinstrumental]

On 11/18/2020 at 1:20 PM, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Beason came right after Morgan and Luke came right after Beason.  Where's the gap?

So you're option is Free Agency like Whitehead.  We see how well that worked out.

You wait until the 3rd or 4th round you're right where we are now. 

There's no gap because we kept throwing first rounders at the problem. But all of their careers were either cut short (Morgan, Beason, Luke), or repeatedly interrupted (Davis) by serious injuries. 

The choice is not between using your most valuable resource or the zero resources that we spent on Whitehead, and the average second-day pick is not going to be as bad a Whitehead. Whitehead was a free agent who signed a one-year, $1 million dollar contract. For a starter, that's the lowest you can possibly go. There are about a million options in between, from reasonably-priced free agents to second and third round picks to trading mid-to-late round picks for established vets on slightly pricier contracts. 

[theinstrumental]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:05 PM, thefuzz said:

Strangely enough, when I was once again having this discussion with posters on this board backing up Hurney's love affair with LB's and RB's....I came across some not so great stuff on the MLB's.

Yes, they have been great players, with Luke being one of the very best of all time...however, how many "great" years did we actually get out of all of those 1st rounders?

Beason, Morgan, and Luke all had abbreviated careers, and ALL of them got PAID by the team.  Our luck isn't as good with MLB's as good as it seems.

There's a whole other rabbit hole here about big contracts to non-premium positions but we're living the downside right now and it's been talked to death so I'll just say good point, I agree.

[thefuzz]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:29 PM, Davidson Deac II said:

Shaq's guaranteed salary for four years is 11 million and some change.  Bradberry's is over 20 million for only three years.  Shaq can be cut in a couple of years with no guaranteed money, although we would have some dead money.  For the three years Bradberry signed, his cap hit is 3 million higher per year on average than Shaq's.  ha

https://overthecap.com/player/shaq-thompson/3873/

https://overthecap.com/player/james-bradberry/4775/

I'm sorry, but 3M per season for a true no. 1 corner vs. an average off ball LB in a 4/3....that's not "a lot more expensive".

[OldhamA]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:23 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

This. Constantly spending huge resources at LB and RB hasn't worked out well for us as a franchise, yet here we have many Panthers fans wanting to spend another high first round pick on a LB.

That's not fair.

If you look at some of the best players to ever suit up for the Panthers, they were first round picks in those positions: Stewart, Williams, McCaffrey, Morgan, Davis and Kuechly.

It's on the GM and HC to build around that. We never did. 

[Varking]

Draft Kyle Pitts. See what our defense looks like when they can pin their ears back and get after a QB when we have a pretty big lead? Pitts in the first solves red zone issues and then go with two oline and then all defense again. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, OldhamA said:

That's not fair.

If you look at some of the best players to ever suit up for the Panthers, they were first round picks in those positions: Stewart, Williams, McCaffrey, Morgan, Davis and Kuechly.

It's on the GM and HC to build around that. We never did. 

We didn't build around them or we couldn't because we had all our resources tied up in them?

We have historically focused on the wrong position groups. That's my point. It's not a comment on the individual players.