NBA Draft Thread 11/18 8 PM EST ESPN. Post your rumors, picks, opinions, etc here.

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Seems like a bad description for a #3 overall pick

Edit: I just realized that I didn't include the post I was responding to.

It's not ideal, but in a draft where everyone has pretty big warts, it's what you're going to get.  The flipside is that, unlike all of the other prospects, he has an elite trait that should translate right out of the box.  And like I said, I do expect him to work on both his defense and shooting (supposedly he's already been working on his jump shot, and those that have seen him say it has improved), but I wouldn't expect much more than getting solid at each.  And to be honest, I have heard that he is not a bad defender when engaged (and his traits seem to back up that potential), so the key will be for Borrego to find a way to convince him to stay engaged on the defensive end.

Personally, I was hoping for Wiseman, was scared to death of Edwards, and was up and down on Ball.  But the one thing I see in Ball that this team badly needs is that he is a facilitator.  He's going to put the other guys in position to maximize their game, and I truly think he elevates us...how high depends on the guys around him, though.  And while he is not a good jump shooter, he can get to the basket and score inside.  To me, he's similar to Jason Kidd in that he was a great facilitator with a suspect jump shot, especially early in his career.  

 

[WUnderhill]

1 hour ago, Martin said:

I didn’t want Ball, but every single draft recap I’ve seen so far has given us an A+ for taking him. The ESPN draft guy was raving about him having seen him play in person in Estonia and Australia. There’s also been multiple articles about him not being an ass (which was my assumption), but a good guy. He came across great in an interview I saw the other day (can’t remember where it was).

So for now I will put my trust in the experts  and not people on this board who’s never seen him play. He’s also a young guy who is still catching up to a major growth spurt going from 6’2 to 6’7.

Our coaching staff have done a great job developing talent over the last two years, so I’m very hopeful.

 

He could even possibly grow a little more, which is an intriguing prospect. He just turned 19 in August.

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

The thing is, he's already a stellar passer. His defense is going to get better too. He averaged 17 ppg in Australia. Anything overseas is harder than the NBA now (see comments from Luka). So, we'll see going forward. 

And 25 years ago, he'd be a deadly player on an offense for a good team but the NBA has changed. Being an elite passer is great but not if you can't either defend or shoot the 3. He can't do either. Versatility is king in the NBA right now.

That's why he is highly unlikely to be an elite NBA player. Is it possible for him to develop those skills? Yes. Is it probable? No. 

His brother was ready a good defender coming into the league and was also a shitty shooter. His brother is still a shitty shooter and he went from being "the future" of the Lakers to getting traded and probably being a journeyman starter in the league. 

He isn't unlike any other "potential" guy that gets drafted every single year. He is a pretty typical high ceiling, very low floor prospect. IMO, he is unlikely to reach that ceiling. Not many of these guys with issues with shooting the ball coming into the NBA get that ironed out as professionals. It is a LOT less excusable for a guy like Ball because he was supposedly focused solely on basketball instead of school, yet these issues are still there. This stuff could have been worked on by now but it either wasn't or it hasn't produced the desired results.

That's where I bristle at the "hard work" comment. I have very literally seen high school and middle school kids work their asses off to be good shooters, defenders, rebounder, etc. I have seen them polish their games and become better prospects and get scholarships as a result. And these kids don't have half the talent that guy does. If he wanted to be great at those things, he could have out the work in to be great at them. I have seen far too many of those guys that just happen to be elite athletes but don't have the drive or desire to be great basketball players. The AAU circuit is littered with those guys.

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, toldozer said:

Why go bobnets when horncats is so much better?

Bobnets sounds more derisive. Also, it was created with the idea that you can change the name, but you can't change the core thing that made the Bobcats the Bobcats.

[kungfoodude]

Double Post.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, MechaZain said:

I put the careless shot selection and not developing his form on him being a traveling show pony at every level he's played in. He's never had to fix it, and no coach in freaking Lithuania or Australia was going to step in to push the league's biggest moneymaker.

Lonzo was much worse coming in and his shooting's alright now.

But that kind of thing isn't going to be fixed by a coach, that is work you do yourself. Any kid I have seen have to change their shooting form after they become a teenager, it is always with a shot coach and working on it constantly on their own time. That's a big reason why a lot of those kids get that corrected early on, because it is a lot easier to train them early than de-program YEARS of programming/muscle memory and then correct something. 

That is one of the big reasons a lot of those guys that have really bad shooting form take a long time or just never get that corrected. It's really hard when you don't get that fixed early. Lavar is completely to blame for that. He claims to be a coach but he developed these kids with fuging TERRIBLE shooting form. A good coach would have recognized and corrected that long before now.

[SizzleBuzz]

2 hours ago, Vagrant said:

i was afraid this might happen. i think this might be my tap out point as far as being a fan of this team. lamelo was the most self-centered and egotistical of all the ball family children. lonzo had his head on right once lavar started to get ridiculous and usually ended up apologizing for him. lamelo just kept being problematic. we can talk about his game all day long but it's all there in his scouting report. disinterested defender. takes ridiculously long range 3's as opposed to working the offense. can pass and rebound like all hell like lonzo, but isn't athletic enough to dribble drive and settles for floaters instead of getting into the teeth of the defense and taking contact. he's got that funky form on his jumpshot where he kicks his feet out in front of him and he's been repping that form for years and years without correction. 

even if he does overcome the negative marks on his scouting report, he's still a jerk. i don't want to be a fan of a team that our star player is more concerned with his instagram popping than his jump shot. 

Amazing that he was drafted #3 with all that bad stuff going on!

Why do you think this is the case?

USA Today gave them an A+ and ranked the #1 of all teams drafting.

 

 

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, TikTOK said:

There are plenty of NBA players that have improve their shots in the NBA. Ball can realistically do that. This isn’t Michael Kidd-Gilchrist 2.0. 

To be determined. We'll have a good idea by the end of his rookie deal.

[Proudiddy]

44 minutes ago, TikTOK said:

There are plenty of NBA players that have improve their shots in the NBA. Ball can realistically do that. This isn’t Michael Kidd-Gilchrist 2.0. 

TJ Warren made a historic jump as a 3pt shooter after getting to the NBA as well.

[Eazy-E]

I live in Charleston and got to watch Riller play a ton. He was my favorite pick of this draft. Very smart player. Can easily see him as the backup PG if / when we move Terry.

[Basbear]

Heres what I learned- This was a top three weak draft. Wiseman would have first if not for KAT. I have big issues for Ball, still prefer him over edwards cause hes got flaws too. Here are my issues with Ball- no other way to put it, his shot is very poor.(Draft MKG without a shot and he still can not shoot) Not a athlete like you want form a top three pick, hes neither strong, nor has explosion jumping abilities or lateral quickness. About his only gift in the body department is height. 

Defensive Im not as worried about, for me thats a league wide issue. For Ball just staying in front of his man is good enough....once he learns that. Heard the Jkidd comps, not even close. Kidds vision was HOF and hes 4x stronger than Ball, even when he came out. They still had to pick Ball, just a weak draft. Edwards scares me to death with his comments and showing up out of shape in the most recent workouts. Hes the last type you give millions too, that was embarrassing and he still was #1 overall.  

 

I liked the bigs, funny cause Mitch said this team can not draft for need and they sure did with both those. Not just saying this cause they are hornets, feel like they will fill a need on this team very soon. Riller seems like the most ready NBA player form this group, which is funny/sad being he was 56th. A good haul in weak draft is hard to pull off. They at least did that day 2 after the draft... 

[amcoolio]

32 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Heres what I learned- This was a top three weak draft. Wiseman would have first if not for KAT. I have big issues for Ball, still prefer him over edwards cause hes got flaws too. Here are my issues with Ball- no other way to put it, his shot is very poor.(Draft MKG without a shot and he still can not shoot) Not a athlete like you want form a top three pick, hes neither strong, nor has explosion jumping abilities or lateral quickness. About his only gift in the body department is height. 

Defensive Im not as worried about, for me thats a league wide issue. For Ball just staying in front of his man is good enough....once he learns that. Heard the Jkidd comps, not even close. Kidds vision was HOF and hes 4x stronger than Ball, even when he came out. They still had to pick Ball, just a weak draft. Edwards scares me to death with his comments and showing up out of shape in the most recent workouts. Hes the last type you give millions too, that was embarrassing and he still was #1 overall.  

 

I liked the bigs, funny cause Mitch said this team can not draft for need and they sure did with both those. Not just saying this cause they are hornets, feel like they will fill a need on this team very soon. Riller seems like the most ready NBA player form this group, which is funny/sad being he was 56th. A good haul in weak draft is hard to pull off. They at least did that day 2 after the draft... 

Wiseman will not live up to expectations the most out of the top 3. He is very slow in his lower body, which means he is slow on the perimeter which means he can't guard any mobile bigs, which is the majority of the NBA right now. And he doesn't have offensive moves except catching lobs and put backs. He projects to be someone like Drummond or Whiteside. Shocking that Golden State picked him and kept him.

[amcoolio]

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

And 25 years ago, he'd be a deadly player on an offense for a good team but the NBA has changed. Being an elite passer is great but not if you can't either defend or shoot the 3. He can't do either. Versatility is king in the NBA right now.

That's why he is highly unlikely to be an elite NBA player. Is it possible for him to develop those skills? Yes. Is it probable? No. 

His brother was ready a good defender coming into the league and was also a shitty shooter. His brother is still a shitty shooter and he went from being "the future" of the Lakers to getting traded and probably being a journeyman starter in the league. 

He isn't unlike any other "potential" guy that gets drafted every single year. He is a pretty typical high ceiling, very low floor prospect. IMO, he is unlikely to reach that ceiling. Not many of these guys with issues with shooting the ball coming into the NBA get that ironed out as professionals. It is a LOT less excusable for a guy like Ball because he was supposedly focused solely on basketball instead of school, yet these issues are still there. This stuff could have been worked on by now but it either wasn't or it hasn't produced the desired results.

That's where I bristle at the "hard work" comment. I have very literally seen high school and middle school kids work their asses off to be good shooters, defenders, rebounder, etc. I have seen them polish their games and become better prospects and get scholarships as a result. And these kids don't have half the talent that guy does. If he wanted to be great at those things, he could have out the work in to be great at them. I have seen far too many of those guys that just happen to be elite athletes but don't have the drive or desire to be great basketball players. The AAU circuit is littered with those guys.

Lonzo doesn't have anywhere near the agility or quickness that LaMelo has. 

I'm not worried about the shot. Apparently he's been working on it non-stop since his last Aussie game which was a year ago. He already has range and isn't afraid of taking them, which is something Ben Simmons, MKG and Lonzo struggle with. He just has to tighten his form.

I think he definitely has the most potential out of the top 5 drafted in this draft. Also he pairs well with any of next year's super draft which has 5 #1 overall prospects and possibly even 7 or 8.

[Basbear]

14 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Wiseman will not live up to expectations the most out of the top 3. He is very slow in his lower body, which means he is slow on the perimeter which means he can't guard any mobile bigs, which is the majority of the NBA right now. And he doesn't have offensive moves except catching lobs and put backs. He projects to be someone like Drummond or Whiteside. Shocking that Golden State picked him and kept him.

Its funny cause I feel this could be a Chinn/Simmons repeat here. I think Wiseman is the top prize in this draft, hes got flaws too. It wouldnt shock me if the carey/richards combo will be better than Wiseman. I heard Wiseman comp is Bosh, I did not see that at ALL. I do see some cousins in Careys game, thats why I feel this could be Chinn/Simmons nba ver1.2. Richards light came on and his asst coach said he will be the steal of the draft-"quote me on that". He was a demon in the SEC and could have went on a tear if there was a tourney.  Again Mitch took a big risk, filled Big needs at C, and landed a pro-ready player at 56.....9.5/10. League starts in a few weeks and these guys are in shape. I could not say that about Edwards or Wiseman.