Week 10 Panthers Metrics/Ratings

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Varking said:

It’s interesting to see TTT at 2.6. Is that 6th most time to throw in the NFL or 6th least? PFF is blocked from work WiFi for some reason. 

Least. He gets the ball out the 8th least amount of time. 

[BrianS]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't want to reach on a QB in the draft. No more Will Grier/Jimmy Clausen moves. We have so many roster needs that it is nuts. Play our board.

I kinda agree . . . but where does the QB come from?

Depending on who you ask, Grier in the third wasn't a reach.  PFF had him as their third best QB overall.  Walter had him as the 7th.  He was actually the 5th QB taken.  And taken with a supplemental pick at the BOTTOM of the third, basically a high fourth round pick if fewer supplementals were given that year.  Hindsight isn't fair.  Look at the board:

Clausen, same thing, you can't hindsight a draft.  He had some folks thinking he could go #1 overall, neck in neck with Sam Bradford as the best QB in that draft.  We got him in the 2nd.  Here's that draft:

QB's are a damn crapshoot man.  You gotta draft em where you think they should be and then just hope they work out.  Most of them - regardless of where they are taken - just don't work.

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, BrianS said:

I kinda agree . . . but where does the QB come from?

Depending on who you ask, Grier in the third wasn't a reach.  PFF had him as their third best QB overall.  Walter had him as the 7th.  He was actually the 5th QB taken.  And taken with a supplemental pick at the BOTTOM of the third, basically a high fourth round pick if fewer supplementals were given that year.  Hindsight isn't fair.  Look at the board:

Clausen, same thing, you can't hindsight a draft.  He had some folks thinking he could go #1 overall, neck in neck with Sam Bradford as the best QB in that draft.  We got him in the 2nd.  Here's that draft:

QB's are a damn crapshoot man.  You gotta draft em where you think they should be and then just hope they work out.  Most of them - regardless of where they are taken - just don't work.

How is stating, emphatically, before-during-after the draft to NOT take Grier(or Little and Gaulden) considered hindsight? It’s called foresight. 

 

  

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, BrianS said:

I kinda agree . . . but where does the QB come from?

Depending on who you ask, Grier in the third wasn't a reach.  PFF had him as their third best QB overall.  Walter had him as the 7th.  He was actually the 5th QB taken.  And taken with a supplemental pick at the BOTTOM of the third, basically a high fourth round pick if fewer supplementals were given that year.  Hindsight isn't fair.  Look at the board:

Clausen, same thing, you can't hindsight a draft.  He had some folks thinking he could go #1 overall, neck in neck with Sam Bradford as the best QB in that draft.  We got him in the 2nd.  Here's that draft:

QB's are a damn crapshoot man.  You gotta draft em where you think they should be and then just hope they work out.  Most of them - regardless of where they are taken - just don't work.

The placement of the QB's I didn't have a problem with. I had a problem with trading up to get them(talking Grier and not Pickles). If they have already slipped to the 2nd/3rd/4th round, odds are they aren't worth trading draft capital to obtain. Let them slide to your next pick. Could throw that shade at any number of bad Hurney move ups for "his" guy. 

I think Clausen was an acceptable bust. At the time he was widely viewed as a great value at that spot in the draft.

[MasterAwesome]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The placement of the QB's I didn't have a problem with. I had a problem with trading up to get them(talking Grier and not Pickles). If they have already slipped to the 2nd/3rd/4th round, odds are they aren't worth trading draft capital to obtain. Let them slide to your next pick. Could throw that shade at any number of bad Hurney move ups for "his" guy. 

I think Clausen was an acceptable bust. At the time he was widely viewed as a great value at that spot in the draft.

Edit: my bad if you're only talking about QBs lol.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Edit: my bad if you're only talking about QBs lol.

Yeah but that was an example of playing our board. We didn't reach and he fell to us. The counter would be Greg Little, a guy that plummeted from his prior season draft stock and when the bulk of the league didn't want him, we trade up to get him. Hell, remember the reaction from Buffalo when we took him after trading up over them? 

[MasterAwesome]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but that was an example of playing our board. We didn't reach and he fell to us. The counter would be Greg Little, a guy that plummeted from his prior season draft stock and when the bulk of the league didn't want him, we trade up to get him. Hell, remember the reaction from Buffalo when we took him after trading up over them? 

If you're talking about Chinn, he didn't fall to us - we traded up to get him at the end of the second round.

I mean I think what you're explaining is just more broadly categorized as poor scouting.  Teams collectively spend probably thousands of hours scouting players leading up to the draft which ultimately culminates in the creation of their draft board, which is essentially their draft playbook.  I don't think any teams on draft day are thinking "Oh shoot we have this dude as a first round talent but other teams keep passing him up...what do we do?!? What are we missing?! Maybe we should bail on him".  If you're confident in your scouting and confident in your evaluation of a player, then you're probably not too worried about other teams passing a guy up.  At least not enough to deviate from your draft board.

I didn't see Buffalo's reaction to us taking Little, but I imagine it was more of a relieved "phew, they didn't take our guy" rather than a "WOW what idiots drafting that bust Little!".  That simply means Ford was their guy and they had him rated higher; I don't know that there is anything else to take from that. 

For the record, since I hear people bringing up Ford a lot on these boards as kind of a "Buffalo owned us" kinda thing, Ford has been pretty darn bad too.  PFF rated him 57th out of 61 tackles last year, and the Bills signed Daryl Williams to replace him at RT this year.  Little is still probably worse, but both very well may turn out to be busts.  They're at least trying him at Guard this season, which I wish we would do with Little...maybe Ford will fare better there, but he's still rated very poorly this season.

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

If you're talking about Chinn, he didn't fall to us - we traded up to get him at the end of the second round.

I mean I think what you're explaining is just more broadly categorized as poor scouting.  Teams collectively spend probably thousands of hours scouting players leading up to the draft which ultimately culminates in the creation of their draft board, which is essentially their draft playbook.  I don't think any teams on draft day are thinking "Oh shoot we have this dude as a first round talent but other teams keep passing him up...what do we do?!? What are we missing?! Maybe we should bail on him".  If you're confident in your scouting and confident in your evaluation of a player, then you're probably not too worried about other teams passing a guy up.  At least not enough to deviate from your draft board.

I didn't see Buffalo's reaction to us taking Little, but I imagine it was more of a relieved "phew, they didn't take our guy" rather than a "WOW what idiots drafting that bust Little!".  That simply means Ford was their guy and they had him rated higher; I don't know that there is anything else to take from that. 

For the record, since I hear people bringing up Ford a lot on these boards as kind of a "Buffalo owned us" kinda thing, Ford has been pretty darn bad too.  PFF rated him 57th out of 61 tackles last year, and the Bills signed Daryl Williams to replace him at RT this year.  Little is still probably worse, but both very well may turn out to be busts.  They're at least trying him at Guard this season, which I wish we would do with Little...maybe Ford will fare better there, but he's still rated very poorly this season.

You are right, we did actually trade up for him. I am getting my wires crossed on our second round picks. 

I don't think there is any question about the fact that our talent evaluation has been pretty poor at times. Some of the moves we make are absolutely head scratching, to the point that I have to think that goes beyond what our scouting department is saying and likely is just another in a long line of Hurney reaches. 

Ford was a guy that most had projected to being a guard anyway. We are on staff #2 that doesn't think Little is worth trying at OT or OG. I'd rather have Ford at this point, I don't think the tape on him has been nearly as bad as Little.